Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast
4 Vital Qualities to Look For When Hiring a Leader
February 20, 2023
Scott Chin
Intro: Imagine taking on a top-leadership role in a well-known organization with a long legacy. Well, what do you do? What kind of leaders do you hire? How do you build trust amongst your employees to move the organization forward? Well, today we talk about these topics and more with the president of Seattle's Union Gospel Mission, Scott Chin.
Welcome: Welcome to the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast, your home for open, honest, and insightful conversations to help develop your leadership, your team, and build a flourishing workplace culture.
Al Lopus: Inspirational leadership is key on the road to flourishing. Inspirational leaders build trust and rally their teams around common strategies. And today on the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast, we're going to consider how leaders create an environment for engaged employees.
When you come into an organization with a long history, how can you help move the team forward into a healthy, even flourishing, workplace? Well, today I'm delighted to welcome Scott Chin to the podcast. Scott is the president of Seattle's Union Gospel Mission and has a deep leadership experience in both ministry and marketplace organizations, including World Vision and Microsoft.
Scott, welcome to the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast.
Scott Chin: Al, thanks so much for having me on today's Leadership Podcast. I'm deeply honored. And it has, let me just say, been great partnering with Best Christian Workplaces Institute for the last three years.
Al: We have really enjoyed it, too. And I speak for Giselle Jenkins, who I know will come up later in the discussion. But this has been a great experience.
Well, Scott, you've been at Union Gospel Mission now for nearly four years. And for the past three years, you've had your employees complete the Best Christian Workplace Employee Engagement Survey, and you've seen, you know—thank goodness—really positive, consistent improvements each year that you've done this. And the employees at the Mission have a high level of trust in your leadership and the leadership of your senior team, and employee retention is even up. So what are some ways that you and your leadership team have used the results of the Engagement Survey to implement changes?
Scott: Yeah, there are three ways I would highlight. The first one is inclusive solution design. What I mean by that is we take the annual Survey results, and we enlist Mission leaders from all across the organization to co-create potential solutions for our various growth areas.
Secondly, then, we focus on a few versus too many items. From the overall list of solutions, we concentrate on a handful so we can drive tangible progress. We certainly don't want to spread ourselves too thin. And as you know, keeping your promises is so very important.
And then third, accountability in a feedback loop. On a regular basis, we report our progress for the things we've committed to do to the entire organization. And that demonstrates transparency.
And then, we use the next annual Survey to see if we're realizing the progress that we want and the progress that we expect. People really want to see that consistent progress year over year and, really, an ongoing commitment from leadership.
Al: Yeah, Scott. And as I was looking at your results, you know, we asked the question, over the past year, things have improved for the better, and that's one of your top-ten items. So that just reflects what a great job you're doing in that feedback loop as people, what your plans are, and see the progress. That’s great. Thank you.
Well, along with your leadership, you've also assembled a strong leadership team. And I really believe positive change happens with a cohesive leadership team. What are some of the qualities that you look for when you're bringing together a leadership team? You've been in place now for almost four years. What are some of the things that you've done? How do you bring people together for a shared vision and give them the authority to accomplish their roles as you work together?
Scott: Yeah. There are four main qualities that I look for, Al. Number one, a deep faith in Jesus. That's a must. As you know, as you just mentioned, our name is Seattle's Union Gospel Mission, right? Our middle name is Gospel, and not because we're a choir. So a deep faith in Jesus. That's a must.
Number two, I look for big-plate leaders. What I mean by that is leaders who can shoulder a broad plate of responsibilities. There are some organizations that organize their leadership with smaller roles, and there are some organizations, like us, that structure their leadership with roles that have big plates of responsibility. And I've always found that latter approach, creating big plates of responsibility, really helps to attract the caliber that we're looking for in big-plate leaders.
Number three, I look for leaders that are hungry. I really do not like micromanagement. I don't like to micromanage people. I certainly don't like to be micromanaged. And so self-motivated leaders are a key.
And then lastly, I look for leaders that are humble. Being a part of a very talented team takes humility. You asked, what do you do to help bring people together for a shared vision, and how do you help them, really unleash them? So shared, I think, is the operative word here. I go to great lengths to ensure that people's voices are heard, that we truly hear one another. And then, when we landed, which we did, on a shared vision, we repeat it over and over, to really build that shared level of understanding and that shared level of recall. Once we had that shared vision in place, we created clear enterprise goals and the associated key strategies that ladder up and down from that.
From there, Al, I simply try to do my best to provide clarity, custom coaching when needed, and support to the various Mission leaders, and then overall, helping with the momentum for the organization. You know, I firmly believe that strong leaders ultimately, Al, they want to walk in the fullness of their unique God-given skills and experience. And in order for that to happen, these leaders, they really do need clarity. They need freedom, and they need ownership. So by providing them with those three key ingredients, then they can really thrive in their roles and responsibilities.
Al: I like your definition of what you're looking for. You know, obviously, deep faith in Christ. You mentioned big-plate leaders. I've often heard the term high-capacity leaders. I mean, this sounds like very much the same. And humble and hungry. Great, great criteria.
You really have a deep understanding of the strategic concept that engaged employees and a positive workplace culture will result in program effectiveness. And of course, this is something that is core to our vision at Best Christian Workplaces. So talk about your leadership background a little bit, Scott. When did you consider this connection between engaged employees and effectiveness? And I know that you've really connected those two dots very directly. So how do these threads come together to shape you and your priorities as a leader?
Scott: Yeah. My leadership background is a combination of both corporate and nonprofit leadership, which I actually think is quite useful. I was fortunate to learn about this strong connection between engaged employees and effectiveness relatively early in my career, and that really has shaped my leadership ever since. Knowing this key fundamental truth, I've spent an increasing amount of my own professional development around organizational health, leadership, and culture. As you know, ministry is certainly not easy. But I do know this: when people are flourishing, it really helps them bear fruit, much fruit, and fruit that lasts. And that's why, Al, I am so intentional and committed to building a flourishing workplace.
Al: And we're seeing that commitment in action, that's for sure.
Well, you know, at Seattle's Union Gospel Mission, you've got a long history of service. There's a long legacy of ministry. And sometimes that can lead to chronic issues that build up and even get deeper over time. So when you came into leadership at the Mission, I'm sure there were some chronic issues and problems that you had to address. What strategies can you share with other leaders? How did you uncover and move forward when you might be tripping over these chronic issues that you may not have seen until you found them?
Scott: Yeah. Well, were there are some chronic problems, Al? Honestly, yes. And for those in ministry, it should come as no surprise that any long-time ministry is going to have some chronic issues to overcome. And the Mission was no different.
Regarding strategies, I have three that I would recommend. Number one, put the facts on the table. It is really hard to know how to move forward until you know the truth. I started my time as the new president by doing a listening tour. I met with everyone at the Mission. Three hundred seventeen pages of notes later, Al, I began to really understand some of the issues.
Number two, focus on the most-important issues first. Every issue is not equal, and you will want to focus on the most-critical ones first.
And then third, keep your promises. Many chronic issues result from either a lack or breakdown of trust. And I would encourage you to help build back some of that trust bank—that's what I call it, the trust bank—by keeping your promises. Simply put, don't make promises if you can't or don't intend to keep them. Christian leadership is not complicated. Now, it is certainly not easy, but we already have the instruction manual: “Let your yes be yes and your no be no.”
Al: Yeah. And you've really worked hard. And again, our question on trust has gone up, and it's one of your top-ten items relative to other rescue missions. But it's so important, as you say, to keep your promises, to do what you say you're going to do. No question.
I trust you’re enjoying our podcast today. We’ll be right back after an important word for leaders.
Are you tired of spinning your wheels with unwanted turnover, toxicity, and disengaged employees? Do you want to improve your team's effectiveness and performance? A helpful way to improve is to have you and your leadership team buy our new book, Road to Flourishing: Eight Keys to Boost Employee Engagement and Well-Being. This is the only research-based book that shows you how to engage employees, build fantastic teams, cultivate life-giving work, attract and retain outstanding talent, and much more. To buy a copy for you and your team, go to www.roadtoflourishing.com. And when you buy a book, you'll receive a free copy of our Rewarding Compensation: FLOURISH Guide. Again, go to roadtoflourishing.com and buy a book for you and your team, and receive a free Rewarding Compensation: FLOURISH Guide.
And now back to today’s special guest.
Well, at this point, can you tell us a story about someone whose life’s been transformed by the Union Gospel Mission? You know, for many of us, we feel a sense of hopelessness when we consider the multilayered issue related to homelessness. You know, here in Seattle, we drive up the highway, we see tents in a lot of places. It's just like, well, wow, that's hard. So share with us an example of how someone's life’s been transformed over time with the support of Union Gospel Mission.
Scott: Al, there are so many stories of transformation to choose from. Let me just say that there are several of our current directors that came through the doors of our shelters, from being lost to found, from being hopeless to hopeful, from being a beloved program guest to now being a trusted leader. Today, believe it or not, roughly 25% of our overall staff have come through program. We at the Mission, we host monthly graduation ceremonies for our program graduates, much like you would experience, like, at a high school graduation. And if you've ever had a mom embrace you, with tears rolling down her face, thanking you for restoring their son to them, you will begin to understand the heart of what happens at the Mission.
Al: That's great. Yep, absolutely.
Well, you know, our colleague Giselle Jenkins, our consulting director, worked with you and many other Mission leaders, and she's mentioned sometimes, to others who are new in their role, that you should call Scott for advice. So, Scott, you've been in your role now for four years. What advice would you give to a new leader stepping into a leadership role like the one that you stepped into? You know, do you have a few practical strategies for leading well and managing the challenge of a new role in the first six months to a year in an organization?
Scott: Yeah. I have three words of advice. One, ask a lot of questions in the beginning, and just as important, keep asking questions. Some of the best leaders that I know remain very curious, and they really listen. Trust me, you will have plenty of opportunities to share. Make sure you have just as many opportunities to learn and keep learning.
Number two, be unwavering in providing clarity and focus. I ask the same question all the time. That question is, what are we solving for? because an organization that has clarity is an organization that can run fast, that can run far, and that can run together.
And then, my third word of advice is give the credit away. As a top leader, credit will naturally come your way. But to foster a flourishing culture, be the first one to give credit away and the last one to take it. You know, for new leaders in their first year, I would say double down on items one and two, asking questions and providing clarity. You simply cannot do these two enough in your first 12 months.
Al: Scott, you know, people talk about, for a new leader to come in, you know, to be slow to make changes. What was your experience coming in? Were you slow to make changes? What was your approach?
Scott: Yeah. With regard to the pace of change, Al, I think what you just mentioned has a ton of wisdom. There are kind of two main approaches. You can come in, and, hopefully, you listen, ask a lot of questions, and then very intentionally over time, implement positive change. The other way I’ve seen it is you come in and you make a lot of big changes very quickly. And as you know, that can be super disruptive.
Al: Guns blazing, as they say, right?
Scott: That's right. And so, you know, from a standpoint of building back that trust, when you come in, you have a posture of listening and understanding, and then very thoughtfully, moving the organization consistently but thoughtfully through positive change. I have found that to be the most successful.
Al: Absolutely. I agree with that.
Well, there's another topic. Let's talk about innovation. When you have engaged employees, you're invested in their work, it can really create energy for innovation. What are some of the areas that you see in your team where you're innovating and creating and bracing new ideas?
Scott: The Mission, we focus on two areas when it comes to innovation. The first area is doing old things in new ways. A couple great examples. Because of COVID, we had to completely re-engineer our intake system, how people come into our programs. Another great example is how we do emergency services, our shelter operations. We moved to a new model of enhanced shelter. And that's another fantastic example, again, of doing old things in new ways.
The second area is doing new things in new ways. We just launched our new Mission Research Center. We, in our 90-year history, have never had a dedicated research function. And to be honest, you know, nationwide, I'm not even sure if there are ten rescue missions that actually have this function. But if we are to achieve one of our key goals, and that is becoming the Mayo Clinic of rescue missions, one of the best missions in the nation, we will need to do new things in new ways.
Al: That’s a great vision. Yeah. Becoming a Mayo Clinic of rescue missions. Fantastic. And I know people will be attracted to that vision, for sure.
Well, you know, let's look ahead for the next year or two. What challenges or opportunities do you and your team face? What are you leaning on for God for help in the coming challenging situations? And what are you excited about?
Scott: Yeah, I’ll start with challenges. For challenges, the two significant ones that come to mind, first, finding enough wonderful new employees for the ministry. As we've talked, we are in a high-growth mode at Seattle's Union Gospel Mission, and we need a lot of wonderful new employees to help bring that to life.
Number two, building fantastic teams. And I love the BCW Survey results because it puts such an emphasis on this. And as you know, this is a never-ending challenge. It takes dedication; it takes intentionality.
For opportunities, I would just say it's actually the same two things that I just mentioned in challenges. I'm fully convinced, though, that the Lord will continue to draw great new additions to the Mission. And, you know, personally, I'm thrilled to meet these new people—we haven't even hired them yet—as well as really investing and strengthening our existing teams.
Al: Yeah. I love the story—Doug Mazza, who is a 20-year, just-retired president of Joni and Friends, a new person would come in that's been hired, and the first thing he'd say is, “You are an answer to prayer.” And it sounds like that's the way you feel, too, when it comes to a number of new employees. And you've done so well on improving the health of your culture. Of course, when you're looking for wonderful new employees for a ministry, the best source is, you know, friends and colleagues of your current employees. And that's a virtuous, positive cycle of when you've got a positive workplace experience, flourishing workplace, that your employees are going to recommend your place to work to others and help solve that problem. Yeah, fantastic.
Yeah. Well, Scott, this has really been a great conversation. We've learned so much. And, you know, I think about going back to when you started and how you really take information, for example, the Employee Engagement Survey. And you really, innovative solutions. You design together, as you say, inclusive solution design. You focus on a few items to move forward. You, then, create accountability and feedback loops. I know you have regular communication with your entire team. I love your qualifications for leadership, deep faith in Christ. Big-plate leaders, leaders who are hungry and humble. And I also appreciate the problems you face, how you've worked with innovation, yeah. Doing old things in new ways, and doing new things in new ways. And facing these challenges. And, you know, we've been waiting for the economy to cool and for the labor market to cool, but we're not seeing a lot of that, are we? So that's important as you find new employees. And I'm thrilled to hear about your growth. So that's fantastic.
Scott, is there anything that you'd like to add that we've talked about?
Scott: You know, Al, when I've thought about how to lead effectively each day on a daily basis, I just try to keep things to be honest and simple by focusing on what I call the three Gs. The first one is the Great Commission, the second one is the great commandment, and the third one is simply trying to be great at what you do, both individually and as an organization. And the reason I share that is that there's so much swirling about us, but if you can just boil it down and help focus on those three Gs, I have just seen that be so helpful for me. So I share that in hopes that it can help and that it might encourage other Christian leaders.
Al: That's great, Scott. Well, thanks so much for your contributions today. And most of all, from the bottom of my heart, I appreciate your commitment to excellence and leadership, your compassionate heart for those you serve, and for making Seattle's Union Gospel Mission a shining organization and an example for others in this community So thanks for taking your time out and speaking to the lives of so many listeners. Thanks, Scott.
Scott: Well, Al, it was my true honor to be with you today. Thank you so much for having me. And God bless you.
Outro: The Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast is sponsored by Best Christian Workplaces. If you need support building a flourishing workplace culture, please visit workplaces.org for more information.
We'll see you again next week for more valuable content to help you develop strong leaders and build a flourishing workplace culture.