Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast
“Hiring with Purpose: A Predictive Model for Building Flourishing Teams“
June 9, 2025
Chad Carter
Intro: What if your next hiring decision could save your organization thousands and transform your workplace culture? Well, on today's episode of the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast, I talk with Chad Carter, the author of The Predictive Hiring Model, and how a consistent, intentional hiring process can radically transform your results. You'll hear the incredible story of a company who reduced their turnover 90% in a critical job by following six disciplines that Chad outlines in his new book. If you've ever hired the wrong person, or feared doing so, this conversation is for you.
Welcome: Welcome to the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast, your home for open, honest, and insightful conversations to help develop your leadership, your team, and build a flourishing workplace culture.
Al Lopus: Hi, I’m Al Lopus, the co-founder of the Best Christian Workplaces and author of the Road to Flourishing, the go-to research-based, Christ-centered guide to building a flourishing workplace culture. And my passion is to equip Christian leaders like you create engaged, flourishing workplaces, where people thrive and organizations make a significant Kingdom impact.
As this month comes to a close, and as I mark three years since transitioning the leadership of the Best Christian Workplaces to Jay Bransford, I’m filled with gratitude and pride. Under Jay's leadership, the Best Christian Workplace team has continued to expand and deepen the impact of our mission in remarkable ways.
And in that same spirit of growth and continuity, I’m passing the mic, entrusting the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast to the next generation of leaders at BCW. You’ll hear more about this exciting transition in the next couple of weeks.
And for now, let me just simply say it's been one of the greatest joys and honors of my life to bring you this vital content over the last 10 years, with over 450 episodes. Thank you for walking with me on this journey as we’ve pursued a bold vision, that Christian-led workplaces set the standard as the best, most effective places to work in the world. So, thank you for listening and for all you do to cultivate flourishing workplaces wherever God has placed you.
Well, I’m delighted to welcome Chad Carter to the podcast today. Chad’s the C12 chair for the Eastern Tennessee region and author of the book, The Predictive Hiring Model.
Throughout our conversation, you'll hear Chad share about a proven framework: learn the six disciplines of the predictive-hiring model to consistently hire the right people for the right roles; secondly, to avoid costly mistakes: understand the most-common hiring pitfalls and how to avoid rushing or unstructured decisions; thirdly, practical tools: discover actionable tools and steps, including behavior-based questions and scorecards, to assess how hard and soft skills make a difference.
I think you're going to love this interview with Chad Carter. But before we dive in, this podcast is proudly sponsored by the Best Christian Workplaces’ Employee Engagement Survey, the most-trusted employee-engagement survey for faith-based organizations. With thousands of leaders already using our platform, each new participant strengthens the growing network committed to flourishing workplace cultures. What makes us unique? Well, we're the only research-based, biblically grounded employee-engagement survey designed specifically for Christian-led organizations, providing insight and transformation through a Kingdom lens. And as today's guest, Chad Carter, reminds us, if you want excellence, it starts with being intentional. And that's what our Survey helps you do. Don’t wait. Now is the ideal time to gather actionable feedback for your team and begin building a healthier Christ-centered workplace. Visit workplaces.org to learn more and to start your journey today.
Well, hello to our new listeners. Thanks for joining us as we honor your investment of time by creating valuable episodes like this.
And now let me tell you a little bit more about Chad Carter. Chad serves as the principal chair for C12 forums in East Tennessee, more specifically, Chattanooga. He's a recognized authority on hiring. Chad is the author of two books, The Predictive Hiring Model and Essentials of Hiring. And with 30 years of marketplace experience, Chad Carter’s built a distinguished career as a business leader in human resources and communications. His expertise spans leading roles in top-tier organizations, including the U.S. Petcare Division of Mars; Sony Music; and the Gideons International; as well as a consulting practice serving healthcare professionals in Nashville, Tennessee. Known for his practical approach, he excels at identifying real business challenges and driving actionable solutions.
So, here’s my conversation with my friend Chad Carter.
Chad, it’s great to have you on the podcast. I’m looking forward to our conversation.
Chad Carter: Thank you, Al. It truly is a joy to always be with you, dear friend.
Al: And we've worked together, probably now 15 years, I would say.
Chad: That’s right.
Al: So this is really a great opportunity to come and talk about your new book. And let's start with a story, a story of the importance of a systematic hiring process. And tell us about a company that you've worked with that realized the need to improve its hiring process, because hiring is such… the talent you have on the team is so important, and hiring is the first step in that process. So let's talk about the intentional model for hiring and how that can change the results of an organization.
Chad: Yeah. Al, one of the stories that comes to mind—of course, there's a number of stories in the book—but one of, I think, the most-powerful stories that I share in the book The Predictive Hiring Model is with dear friend, Erik Hinson. He’s become, he became a friend. Erik Hinson’s the president of Logistics Worldwide. Erik and his commercial manager attended one of my predictive-hiring-model workshops. He shared that one of the reasons they participated was because over the previous two years, they had relied on a temp service for candidate recruitment. And during that two-year period, they went through 200 temporary employees. They just felt like there's got to be a better way.
During the training, they listened to what I was talking about in discussing the importance of actually slowing down the hiring process and increasing intentionality, using the predictive-hiring model. After the session, they decided to review the more than 100 behavior-based interview questions that I provided in an earlier book, which actually, Best Christian Workplaces published, and I'm grateful for that. But it provided more than 100 behavior-based interview questions. And they chose their own questions from these examples and developed additional ones based on the five attributes, and as some people call it, the five Cs.
But instead of asking standard interview questions like, “Can you do this? Can you do that? Okay, you're hired.” You know those folks, Al. They began using open-ended behavior-based interview questions. And since the training, they measured their hiring results over another two-year period, and the results were truly amazing. I was not a part of any of that other than the training to them. But they came back to me and shared that in the same time frame, during which that they had hired 200 people, through their newfound intentionality, using the predictive-hiring model and the improved interview questions, they only needed to hire 20 people. The reduction of 180 people led to significant savings for their bottom line. Additionally, they avoided what you and I would call the emotional and the physical stress of constantly being on this wheel of hiring and training new staff, onboarding them. They also fostered closer relationships with their employees. And as these individuals were more likely to engage with them and to build a great culture, they would stay with the company. And Al, I believe your listeners would agree that these aren't random results, 180 people. You know, you might be able to swing it 10 or 20. But a real solid, predictable hiring process honestly is what makes the difference. And so that's the story that comes to my mind that has made such a significant difference. And in all candor, there are many more as people are learning about the model.
Al: Yeah. So, from 200 employees to 20 employees, using a predictive-hiring model, the model that you described in a workshop.
Well, let's talk a little bit about your latest book, The Predictive Hiring Model: Six Disciplines to Get It Right Every Time. So give us a high-level overview of the model. And I know that this is something that you've developed over years of hiring, of talent development, of HR consulting, and human resources. So tell us about the model.
Chad: Yeah. Specifically, the predictive-hiring model is, and just by definition, it's a systematic, repeatable process that enables hiring managers to make informed decisions and improve the quality of hires. However, let me be clear, predictive hiring doesn't mean perfect hiring. That's something that every now and then I'll get a little criticism. Somebody might say, “Well, are you sure?” and I have to reiterate that predictive hiring is not perfect hiring. It does significantly increase the likelihood that you are going to hire the right person in the right seat if you're committed to trusting the process.
The predictive-hiring model provides the how. You may recall, Al, when I wrote the Essentials of Hiring, the five attributes, which is the five Cs, that's what to look for. This, the predictive-hiring model, is how to go about the process. And unfortunately, most organizations don't use the same hiring process every time they go to hire somebody. That would be like us using different processes to manage accounting. “Today, we're going to use this process. Tomorrow, we’re going to slow walk it and use something different.” I mean, none of us could imagine that. That's why we have the GAAP, general accounting practices. The six disciplines are just that. They are a discipline process that yields a predictable result if used consistently over time.
So here they are, Al. The first discipline is alignment. It involves defining success for the role to ensure clarity about who you're going to hire. There are numerous tools in the book to help each of us understand how to gain alignment, so I won't spend a lot of time on that.
The second discipline is recruitment. This focuses on the strategic data-driven sourcing of candidates. This has all the potential to actually be fun and enjoyable, I think. Some might call me a nerd when it comes to that, but I really believe this is where the fun is, an enjoyable aspect of the process, because of all the people that you're going to meet in the process.
The third discipline is assessment. This helps us move from gut feelings to a greater understanding of who we're actually hiring. We gain a solid understanding of the candidate's ability to achieve the hard skills, and we see their soft skills on display as we have the opportunity to interact with them. Soft skills, some might say, “Okay. I understand what a hard skill is. What's a soft skill?” Soft skill is something like critical thinking, problem solving, conflict management. Those are just a few.
The fourth discipline is screening. When we screen the candidates properly, we use predictive analytics to filter and prioritize candidates based on the collective data we've pulled together, actually, in the earlier alignment step of the process. While this may sound fairly sterile, it's far from sterile if you create an emotional connection with your candidates as you're meeting and you're screening. Chick-fil-A, I think, does one of the best jobs in the world of creating that emotional connection with not only their client, their customer, but they do a fantastic job. My dear friend, Dee Ann Turner, has taught me a lot about that. So it's a vital piece of this screening aspect. This is very personal, and this is also where your greatest skills of hiring the right people are able to elevate and actually impact the hiring process.
The fifth discipline is offering. This is where we seal the deal with the right candidate. And I genuinely believe that I've got some pretty unique tools and interesting tools in the process and that I have written about in the book and that can really help each hiring manager here. It’ll raise their standard of how they're actually interacting and attracting the right candidates into their opportunities.
And then, the final step, the final discipline is the sixth discipline, which is measured outcomes. And this is when we take stock of our hiring process by tracking key metrics to learn what we do right, and what can we continuously tweak and improve? We have to pay attention to the details. I love this old saying—I believe it's from Peter Drucker—“What gets measured gets improved,” so that we're continuously making better decisions.
Al: Yeah. I really wonder, for those of us listening, are we measuring the success of our recruiting? You know, how many of our recruits two years later are still with us? for example, I would imagine would be one of the things. Yeah.
So, all right. Six steps: alignment, recruitment, assessment, screening, offering, and then, measuring the outcomes. I love it.
So, why is hiring the right people so hard? I mean, all of the management gurus talk about how important it is to attract the right talent, you know, having the right people on the bus. But organizations often make expensive mistakes in their process. So what are some of the common pitfalls that you've seen in the hiring process? You’ve gotten a lot of pushback, I’m sure, over time.
Chad: Well, I have, in the roles that I've been in, but it's so intuitively obvious once you actually get into the organization and you begin tweaking. But the first pitfall, really, for most organizations—and I'm a C12 chair now within the C12 Business Forums organization, so I have the opportunity to really work with talented CEOs. But in my FOCUS60s, my one-to-one meetings with those individuals, Al, I have been asking them all about this. What do they really believe? is the first and most vital pitfall. And here it is: they don't use a process. It's not consistently used. It's not a predictable process every time, like they do in the other disciplines that we've just talked about, like accounting, like project management, like IT. They're going to use the same steps every single time. They're going to use protocols, if you will. Now, healthcare does the same thing, but yet we don't do that in our hiring. Why do we not do that? Most organizations are very unstructured in their interview process. As a result, they can't fairly compare candidates to one another, and they achieve erratic results. That's what they get.
It's so unfortunate, but candidates falsify information on their resumes, and because there's not a predictive-hiring process, managers simply don't pick it up. They just don't do that. So, many organizations don't follow the first discipline, which is that of alignment. And as a result, they don't define the role clearly enough before they actually even go to market. This creates so much confusion within the marketplace with candidates, but also within their own organization.
And here's one of the, it's not the final one, but having the wrong interviewers involved in the hiring process, Al. This is a big issue. So, many organizations have various people involved in the hiring process because of a job title. Just because somebody is in a role, we're going to put them into the hiring process. I've always been an advocate for getting people who have what's called a high HBA. That's a hiring batting average. You want to get somebody in the role for helping you hire that really has X-ray vision through people. And I tell a story about a dear colleague of mine that I worked with, Karen, that I would hope people will have that opportunity to work with somebody like Karen.
There are many more, but I'll close it out with another biggie, which is rushing the hiring decision. Filling a role simply because it's open, I would consider that a lazy option. I recently had an executive reach out to me after they had read The Predictive Hiring Model book. And here's what they said, “I have no idea why it never dawned on me, even after more than 30 years of hiring people, that I should use a consistent, predictable hiring process like this, and that I should leave a position open until I actually have the right person.” Isn't that amazing?
Al: That’s amazing, yeah.
Chad: Yeah.
Al: Chad, I'll have to say, again, having hired a lot of people, particularly in my previous marketplace role, and particularly during tight labor markets, where the need is accentuated, the labor market is tight, we get a candidate who's available. Gosh, we want to fill that job just as soon as possible so we can get on. And yet that's always the most dangerous thing to do is just to quickly fill the job without having gone through making sure it is the right person.
Chad: Well, the unfortunate thing is if you don't hire the right person, that hiring turns into just a one-letter difference, which is firing. And in addition to that, you end up retaining the individual far too long in your organization, and they do residual damage.
Al: Yeah. Yeah. I've seen so many times where hiring managers and managers overall will let a situation go for a year and a half before they really will take the action necessary to move on, and you've just wasted time and energy. And again, the longer it goes, the harder it is.
Chad: Most people, once you actually let someone go—I remember my president of a particular company that I worked for, he came up to me. He said, “Chad, what did we learn out of this?” And I said, “Well, I believe that we've learned that it took us far too long to do this.” And as a result, he said, “Well, it was really my fault, wasn't it?” I said, “Yes, it was.” You know, and people have a good heart, that they want to do the right thing, but what that does is the employees around us are saying, “What took you so long?”
Al: That happens so often. You know, again, we, as a manager, we'll drag our feet, we’ll try to develop them, we'll trying to, you know, whatever. But people around who are picking up their work, they're being demotivated because of a lack of trust that exists, it just is something to get resolved.
Well, now, Chad, take us deeper. Take us deeper into alignment. So that was your first step in the process. You know, at Best Christian Workplaces, we focus on growing a healthy workplace culture, and it's the importance of leaders in creating and sustaining a thriving culture. So certainly, I agree with alignment to the culture, that that's essential. But one thing that strikes me about your work is that you really help people be systematic in their hiring. So how can a hiring manager be systematic about discovering the correct alignment, as you describe it? Are there some specific steps that can really help us confirm alignment during the hiring process? Tell us a little more.
Chad: We have what we tolerate in our process and within our organizations. If you're good with no systematic or consistent processes that provide you with fantastic results, then you deserve what you get. And I realize that sounds harsh, but we sometimes need a jolt into reality. That's unfortunate.
On the other hand, alignment is where we get to create exactly who we're going to hire. And we can know who that is in advance. I've stated for many years you and I've done workshops together. You've heard me say this a number of times. I know exactly who I'm hiring; I just haven't met them yet. And you can say that, too, if you follow the model, this systematic, repeatable process.
The journey to alignment starts with the team itself, though. Before even looking at resumes, before drafting a job description, the first step is to clarify internally what you truly need, not just in terms of values and culture and team dynamics; you want to know what kind of energy, what kind of mindset, what kind of drive will complement the strengths of the current team. What gaps are you aiming to fill in this process with this person? Not just today, but for the organization's future direction, in the coming few years.
This is where collaboration begins. And I think this, again, is where a lot of fun and enjoyment happens. It's where we're really growing the team, and we're learning to know and understand one another. But too often, we send our HR folks off to write a job description or conduct interviews, and unfortunately, they actually—and this is really not an indictment on HR; it's really on senior leadership—but the HR person really has no idea what they're looking for. They really don't. They're doing their work in a vacuum, and we've got to stop that.
So, we pull the team together; we determine what success looks like for the right candidate in this role; and how will that success contribute to the collective mission of the organization? Achieving alignment within the team means that having honest and candid conversations is paramount.
And then, finally, I would say the first step is to come together as a team beyond the hiring manager and define exactly what we're looking for. This is where we gain the alignment. And once we do this, then we can start drafting the job description and the ideal candidate profile.
Al: And what would go into this? a discussion about values? a discussion about competencies? Describe a little bit of this ideal-candidate profile, then.
Chad: Yeah. Well, the ideal-candidate profile, we're actually going to be talking about, I mean, what type of person do we need in this role? like what we were talking about a little bit earlier. I mean, this is what they walk like, spit like, you know, who they are. What's the genuine nature of who this person is? We're not just looking for these hard skills, but we're really looking at the hard and the soft skills of the individual together, and that's what's going to comprise, far more than a job description, which is going to describe, here are the duties of the role, the ideal-candidate profile is going tell us who this person really is.
Al: Yeah. So one area that's challenging organizations is developing a talent pipeline. And so that's all part of this process. So what are some specific steps that leaders can take to help cultivate a pipeline, even during a season when you may not be actively hiring new people?
Chad: And you feel free to jump in here anytime, Al, because you are so knowledgeable about this. That's why I love doing these podcasts with you. But I often speak about combining a farmer's diligence with the hunter's proactive strategies so that you can develop a robust talent pipeline, even in challenging job markets, or maybe during a season when you're not actually actively hiring.
I believe there are several ways to do that.
We start by identifying key roles within our organization that are critical to our success. These are the roles causing you to initiate and actually build a talent pipeline.
Next, we implement the first strategy of recruitment. We engage with potential candidates. We do that by going to networking events, industry conferences, social media. We create a talent community, if you will, by offering valuable content such as industry insights, career advice, and company updates to folks in our particular region. This keeps potential candidates interested in our organization, and it communicates the type of culture we're actually trying to cultivate. We nurture relationships with candidates in our talent pipeline through regular communications. We provide job-opening updates, we invite them to company events, and we share news about the organization's achievements.
I have a file that I actually keep. I call it the rainy-day file. This includes the resumes and the contact information for all ideal candidates that I'm currently interested in, in bringing into the organization. And they may be somebody that I've met over time.
So here are some specific actionable steps that listeners can take to cultivate a strong pipeline.
Number one, continually network with high-caliber talent. Engage in the industry with industry peers at conferences, LinkedIn, through referrals. Schedule informational conversations. I actually love to do that. When I lived in the Nashville community, I was doing that all of the time, just meeting with people to see where they were so that they could understand where we are as well. And I would build a bench of potential hires to keep in that rainy-day file.
Second thing is develop internal talent. Identify—you've heard of the 9 box. We would use the 9 box, or sometimes, if that was too complex, we would condense it to a 4 box, and we would identify our hypo talent and create individual development plans. We would offer cross-training or stretch assignments to help them grow into future roles. And then, we would host leadership-development cohorts, or we might have a mentorship relationship between a couple of individuals.
Third, we would stay engaged with former candidates. And this is probably one of my favorites, Al. We would keep what we called silver medalists in our talent pipeline. These are great candidates who just didn't get hired because we only had one opening. And we would reconnect periodically through brief emails, company updates, etc. This is where you're creating, in many ways, that emotional connection with people because they know that you care about them.
And I share a story about a lady—I'll just say her first name here, Michelle—and she's given me permission to use her full name in the book. But, you know, I tell a story about her and how it took us four back-and-forth opportunities to actually land her in the company. Actually, don't know if she's still there now, but I know she was there for 20-plus years in that particular organization.
So, I've been doing this for a while, some of this same process, and I think it's vital to have all of these different options in your toolkit.
Al: And having a list like this or relationships, you know, staying engaged with former candidates, or creating a rainy-day file, these all speed the selection process, and it allows you to fill positions even higher with the right people.
Chad: Yeah. Well, and because of these processes, it has allowed, at least me and many others, to build trust with those candidates so that once you get to that, particularly if it's a second or a third opportunity to work with them, I mean, it goes so much faster.
Al: So, when we're making a hiring decision, Chad, we have access to both hard and soft skills through the interview process, and you talk about how it can be difficult to assess soft skills. Yeah. So it's hard to create a way of assessing it specifically. So what kind of training and tools do hiring managers need to be effective in the way that they assess job candidates? I can't wait to hear your thoughts on this.
Chad: Well, Al, let me approach this question from a slightly unexpected angle. Over the years, I've had the difficult responsibility of being involved in hundreds of employee terminations and separations. I do want to clarify: these are not people that I have hired. I think that's important if you're looking at the predictive-hiring model. In every single situation, 100%, the root cause was not technical abilities, or hard skills, as some people might say, but it's a lack of soft skills. These included poor communication, weak leadership, difficulty adapting to change, ineffective conflict management, or things like low emotional quotient. This simply provides us with a clear picture of how tricky it is to assess soft skills. So to improve how hiring managers evaluate soft skills, they need both training and tools at their disposal to sharpen their discernment abilities and structure their assessments.
So here are a few ideas that I'll share.
First of all, training managers on behavioral interviewing techniques. This is how to ask open-ended questions that elicit past behavior and real examples. For example, “Tell me about a time you had to deal with conflict on a team. Who was it with, how did you handle it, and what was the outcome?” Why does this matter, by the way? Some listener may say, “Why does this matter?” Well, past behavior is often the best predictor of future performance.
The second option here is training managers on listening and interpretation skills. This is active listening, reading between the lines, and watching for non-verbal cues. Why does this matter? Soft skills often show up in tone, energy, and interpersonal style.
Al: Well, Chad, you mean if you're interviewing, you shouldn't be the one dominating the conversation.
Chad: That's exactly right, Al. You should be listening 80% of the time. And so often, you and I both know, in interviews, hiring managers will try to sell the position, so they'll talk 80% percent of the time. And such a faux pas in this situation and just not healthy. And the candidate, honestly, is probably glazing over, because the candidate really wants to be able to have the opportunity to share about themselves.
A third idea is interviewing for alignment with our core values. And we interview the person already, someone we hope that already possesses our core values. A person cannot give what they do not possess. So that's why we really want to make sure that they already have our core values.
And then, I also believe we need to assess soft skills. I like to use several tools. There's no commercial break here for either of these tools, but in my attorneys for the book, I did not share a whole lot about these tools in the book, but I will share the tools that I use on a podcast. I like to use DiSC. I like to find out what the communication styles of the individual are and how they're going to fit actually in this team.
I also love to use the Culture Index. My dear colleague Scott Prickett is just an expert in using that tool. And I think it's a tool that can really help in assessing candidates for roles.
But one of the keys to using any tool that's available to you is that you need to become well-versed in using the tool. So many individuals, they use a plethora of tools, and they really don't even know what they're doing. It's kind of like using a sling sickle, and you could have the potential of cutting off your leg if you don't know what you're doing. And so I would encourage people to understand the tools that they're using.
And then, the final piece is use a scorecard. Use a hiring scorecard that will clearly define the soft skills, soft-skill competencies that you're needing, put a rating scale on there. I actually have a scorecard, a predictive-hiring-model scorecard that is a part of the book. That keeps assessments grounded in criteria rather than a gut feeling for hiring managers.
Al: So, you’re suggesting, Chad, that when you have different managers who are hiring a candidate, that you come back together and actually have them talk about the outcomes and then talk about specific ratings for each of the things that you're looking for.
Chad: Yeah. I call that a debrief. And there's actually a skill. There's a skill in learning how to actually lead those debriefs. But the debrief can be, once you really get great at it, oh, my goodness, I've seen debriefs last as short as two to three minutes, because people immediately know. And I've seen it go as long as an hour, simply because this is a vital hire, and there's some microcosmic question about the individual, and everybody's trying to get to the root of it. But yes, debriefs are vital to the success of the hiring process.
Al: Yeah. So it's just not a one- or two-person experience. You increase the chance of hiring the right person when you have more people involved. Yeah.
Chad: Well, when you have the right people, people that have a high HBA.
Al: Yeah. I’ve been involved in church-pastor searches—
Chad: Mm-hmm. Oh, boy.
Al: —and we've got people on that search committee that have never hired anybody and have no experience with it, don't have that vision, as you're talking about. Exactly.
Chad: Well, this is why you would provide training in advance for those individuals so that everybody actually, even in the hiring process—this goes back to the first step—we’re aligned.
Al: Well, let’s talk about a new tool that is getting a lot of attention in this process, and it's called artificial intelligence, AI—not to be confused with A-L, my first name. People say, “Every time I see AI I think of Al,” but no. So AI is used widely in HR screening tools and also by candidates in actually preparing their resumes, and it just comes out with really smooth, good-looking, attractive language. And as all of these tools become even more widely used, how do we best use technology to screen applicants and also maintain the appropriate human touch in the process?
Chad: That's an excellent question, Al. This is one of the most important tensions in modern hiring today. How do we embrace technology without losing humanity? AI and automation can be an incredible force multiplier, but I want to remind our audience that they are simply tools. They shouldn't be replacements for the God-given gifts of discernment, relationship, and our ability to understand cultural fit.
So, here's how I advise leaders to strike a balance, actually, with the tools.
Number one, automate the right things. Have AI handle repetitive, low-touch tasks so that you're freed up to focus on the high-impact human interactions.
Second, use AI as decision support. And I'm going to underscore support. But use structured scorecards and human interviews to validate what the data may be suggesting to you. I know there are some who will not agree with me when I say this, but AI is not right all of the time. It's kind of like fake news, so to speak. And so you have to really be careful with the tools that the information that you're actually getting back from AI.
Third, create an emotional connection with candidates through a fantastic candidate experience. Make it fun. Make it memorable for the candidate.
And then, fourth, and ultimately, let AI handle the processing of data, but allow people to interact with people. The ultimate goal isn't actually to fill a position. And there may be some that disagree with me. I believe it's the opportunity to build a thriving and flourishing team. And that takes wisdom, time, and skill in building relationships. And I can't imagine, actually, a better book than the Road to Flourishing that would help individuals to know how to actually build their culture.
Al: Well, thanks, Chad. Yeah.
Well, staying on with your book here, you've outlined a robust model—there's no question about it—and a model that can help our listeners get the right people hired and contributing in their organizations. And in this economy, people need new people for their companies to grow and our country to grow. So what do you say to the listener who's been absorbing all this and is now convinced they need to revamp their hiring process, but it seems just a little bit overwhelming? What are the first steps that you can encourage our listeners to implement with a new hiring model?
Chad: Sure. It's a great question, Al, and it's one I do hear often. When somebody realizes their hiring process isn't serving them well, it can feel like standing at the bottom of a mountain. But the good news is this: you don't have to climb it all at once. You really don't. I didn't. With the help of many people, I created the predictive-hiring model over several years.
So, here's how I guide leaders to take their first steps without getting overwhelmed.
Number one, start with one critical role. Don't try to overhaul the entire organization overnight. Choose one key role, maybe one that's been hard to fill or where a bad hire has cost you quite a bit, and work on that particular role. Use that as your pilot project for the new model.
Second, clarify what great looks like. I talk about this quite a bit in the book. Write down, what does success look like in this role six months from now? Build a clear scorecard, outcomes, key behaviors, and the necessary skills. All this to become your filter for evaluating candidates. Not just a job description, but a success description for the individual and for the role.
Third, involve the right people as part of the hiring team. We just talked about that. Bring people in that have a high HBA into this opportunity to raise the level of your organization.
And then, fourth, upgrade the interview process. Introduce structured interviews using the same questions, same format for all candidates, where you're comparing apples to apples. Focus on evidence-based answers—“Tell me about a time when...” I just gave an example of that earlier—instead of hypotheticals. That doesn't help anybody.
And then, finally, and this sounds a bit self-aggrandizing—I hate to say this, and I'm not trying to peddle books.
Al: Let me say it, Chad, so that you don't have to.
Chad: Okay.
Al: But yeah, buy the book. Yeah. The Predictive—
Chad: No, don't just buy it; read it.
Al: Read it, yeah. There you go. And implement it, is really what you're saying.
Chad: Yes, that’s right.
Al: Yeah. The Predictive Hiring Model. Yeah, absolutely.
Chad: We actually do some workshops as well, Al, from time to time. And since I've written the book, I have had more people reaching out to say, “Hey, could you do a workshop inside our organization?” And so I'm doing a select few of those. I had a great pastor say to me one time, “You can do every single thing you want to do, you just can't do it all today.” So I'm not trying to do everything today. I'm working with people over time to do that. But in short, start small, get clear, be consistent, and build from there.
Al: Chad, you mentioned developing an emotional connection with the candidates somewhere along the way. You know, you mentioned doing something fun. I've had leaders tell me over and over that they like to, especially for senior roles, like to take the candidate and their spouse out for dinner, as an example. Is that something you'd recommend?
Chad: I have done it a number of times, and I think there are some great examples of where people will certainly let their hair down when they're eating. It's amazing to me what people will say when they’re eating. It blows my mind. Patrick Lencioni, whom I have a great deal of regard for, he compares it to the elixir of truth. So, I'm sorry, I won't say what that is. I'm sure everybody can figure that out. But that's exactly what food does for us. And there have been many a situation to where an individual, by letting their hair down in those moments, they think the interview process is over, but it really is the opportunity to learn a lot about the individual in a very casual, laid-back environment.
Al: And I've also found the interaction between the candidate and their spouse is also informative about how they will treat others with respect or not in the workplace too, yeah.
Well, Chad, this has been just a great conversation. We've covered so much ground about the predictable-hiring model. And starting with the six steps: alignment, recruitment, assessment, screening, offering, and measured outcomes. And then, you know, even pitfalls, as, again, managers, listeners, as they're processing this conversation, it's like, well, this sounds like a lot of work. But believe me, as we think about it, we've known of situations that have gone wrong, and if we can avoid that, that'll be worth the pain. There's no question about that.
Chad: I have one additional thought for your audience, Al. They're getting paid to do it. That may be the thought. I get really excited about doing something with excellence. I do not get excited about something with mediocrity. So there is some criticism, “Wow, this is a lot of stuff,” and that's why you asked the question, where can we start? I got started the way that I recommended, but over the years, I've really tightened this up and brought an entirely new level of excellence to the organizations that I've had the pleasure of serving and working with.
Al: One of the things, I think it was we were working together on another project, and I was going to be hiring somebody, and you coached me to rather than send the offer letter over email, that I should call the person first. Is that something you recommend?
Chad: Oh, absolutely. I always write the letter first so that I make sure that I ensure that I have everything in there, make sure that we're all aligned, aligned that goes through all the way to the very end. But then, what I do is I use that letter, usually just have it in front of me. That's really my script, if you will, when I'm walking through this so that I don't forget anything when I'm talking with the candidate. But there's such a great opportunity to continue building relationship because remember, you're not onboarding the candidate when they start with you. You're actually onboarding them as you're interviewing them. They're seeing who you are. They're seeing how long it takes you to get back in touch with them. They're seeing, do you really have your act together as you are providing the offer to them? The offer letter is the opportunity to seal the deal.
Al: That’s great advice. Thanks, Chad.
Well, we've learned so much.
Let me ask you, is there anything you'd like to add that we've talked about?
Chad: I think so. I would say that, just candidly, that the book is chock full of ideas. It took me 10 years to write this book. That's a long time, I think, by anybody's standard. But the reason it took me that long was it is just chock full of ideas, stories, tools for individuals. And if anybody really knows much about books, you're not really making money off of books; you're just trying to break even, if you will. But I would just say to them, please use it. I know it works. And they can go to predictivehiringmodel.com, and they'll actually get other tools that are there if they do sign up for the email list. And then, I'll be sending additional tools out beyond even the book.
Al: Great. Thanks, Chad.
Well, thanks so much for your contribution today. I appreciate your commitment to equip Christian business owners, Christian leaders with resources that lead well. So, thanks for your taking your time out today and speaking in the lives of so many listeners, with such a practical, important topic.
Chad: Thank you, Al. It’s sincerely my pleasure.
Al: Thank you so much for listening to my conversation with Chad. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did.
You can find ways to connect with him and links to everything we discussed in the show notes and transcript at workplaces.org/podcast.
And if you have any suggestions for me about our podcast or have any questions on flourishing workplace cultures, please email me, al@workplaces.org.
And if today's conversation challenged you to reimagine how you lead, hire, and build your team, don't let it stop here. Start by taking one intentional step toward a more consistent values-aligned process, whether it's clarifying your next hire, assessing your culture, or using a tool like our Employee Engagement Survey. Remember, excellence begins with action. Let's build flourishing, Christ-centered workplaces together.
And next week, how can you lead others well if you haven't first learned to lead yourself? Well, join us for an inspiring conversation with Tami Heim, president of the Christian Leadership Alliance, as she unpacks the vital role of self-awareness in leadership. You'll discover why the most-effective leaders begin with inner discipline and intentional reflection and how that foundation can transform your leadership from the inside out. So don't miss this powerful episode on the first, most important step of leadership, and that's leading yourself.
Outro: The Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast is sponsored by Best Christian Workplaces. If you need support building a flourishing workplace culture, please visit workplaces.org for more information.
We'll see you again next week for more valuable content to help you develop strong leaders and build a flourishing workplace culture.