Greg: We always reinforce - we all own the culture. This isn’t like you guys evaluating us. We all own it, and culture is a means to the end. It’s not the end in and of itself. The end is the mission of God advancing. But the health of our culture determines how effective the mission will advance – how effectively the mission advances.
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Narrator: This is the Called to Flourish podcast, where leaders and cultures grow.
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Robert: Welcome to the Called to Flourish podcast, where leaders and cultures grow. My name is Robert Wachter. I’m the Vice President of Sales and Marketing here at Best Christian Workplaces. Today I’m joined by Pastor Greg Anderson. He’s the executive Pastor of Traders Point Church in Indianapolis. Pastor Greg, welcome to the podcast. We’d love to - introduce yourself to the audience today.
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Greg: Yeah. Well, Robert, thank you for having me. We’re honored to get to be on here. We’re thankful for our partnership. I think we’ve been with you guys for 10 years, and so--.
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Robert: Ten years.
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Greg: You guys have – you guys mean a lot to us, and we’ve been very grateful. But yeah, I’m honored to get to be the Executive Pastor at Traders. I’ve been in that role for nine years. I was a Campus Pastor before that and was in the pharmaceutical industry before that. Traders is a pretty unique church. It started in 1834, so we talk a lot about our 200th birthday, and not a lot of churches get to do that. So God’s been really, really gracious to our church, and we’re having a really, you know, fun season right now where we’re seeing God do a lot of amazing things and so we’re super grateful and grateful to get to share with you guys.
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Robert: Amen. Grateful for the partnership as well. You know, so what fascinates me about, about your church, first of all, the legacy of the church – 200 years – that’s amazing. But you know, you’re not just one of the fastest growing churches in the country. So our listeners understand, Traders Point has been recognized. They are rapidly growing in terms of church growth. But here with our work with Best Christian Workplaces, they’ve also built a workplace culture that has moved from what we call “healthy” to a “flourishing” range, which is the best of the best. So, we’re talking about a church that has grown rapidly both in numbers, but also internally with staff culture. That is unique and pretty amazing. That’s what I want to talk about with you, Greg. Churches pray for growth, right. We want growth. But growth does put real strain on the people who make it possible, and that’s why this is so unique and I think important for our audience. What does rapid growth demand from a church staff that people on the outside may never see happening?
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Greg: Yeah. I mean, it’s – it is – we recognize it’s pretty unique what God’s doing, and we’re super grateful for what He’s doing. You know, if we look back at the COVID season as a season that, you know, it was the Sunday before we shut down that we crossed 10,000 for the first time, and that was a big deal to us. We’re like, holy cow, you know 10,000 people, and it didn’t take long once COVID happened and we all shut down to realize, yeah, we’re not too sure we were making disciples real well. Sure, disciples were being made, of course, but we really were humbled pretty quickly, and I think God did that, and over the next two years, you know, we stayed true to the survey. We kept slugging away, and we were just, kind of, barely healthy, you know, took some hits, went backwards, but have always been committed to checking on our employee engagement and understanding where our team is at and so I think that’s the first thing I’d say is that, you know, we were really humbled and God did that. We realized one of the things that the survey has helped us with is – and Giselle, our consultant, has said, our score on inspirational leadership has always been pretty high, and that’s the most important driver for you guy’s guidance, and she’ll always say it’s the hardest one to turn around, and so whatever you guys can do to protect that, you’ve got to do that. Well, you know so much of that is, you know, are the leaders of the church showing Christlike humility? Are they showing the fruits of the Spirit? And that’s been something that we’ve been – try to take really seriously. We’ll say, as the staff goes, the church goes. Well, as the leaders of the church go, the staff goes. And we work really hard to say we all own the culture. This isn’t like just you guys evaluate us. It’s like we all own it, so the more that we’ve worked to grow in humility as a staff, the more we’ve grown to own the culture. Over time, I think we’ve seen a lot of growth just at the core of who we are as a staff. When we talk about leadership - you know the Bible doesn’t talk about leadership development - it talks about leader development, and when we say leader at Traders it’s a disciple first, leader second. So like at the core is a disciple, and then we’re going to teach some leadership skills, and I think a lot of times Christian organizations or churches can get in trouble when the big focus is on leadership, but all of a sudden, that the core of following Jesus begins to shrink. We put all the focus on leadership, so you might have a really talented leader, a really good communicator, but the character is shriveling up. You don’t have the character to outpace the talent. I think that’s something we’ve talked for years to say, we must continue to develop our own character over our talent, and so again, staff wide I think our staff has done that really, really well. And then another huge thing that we realized coming out of COVID-19, and the survey was critical in this, is we were really low on sustainable strategy. So it’s like we’ve got – we’ve always had a high focus on our culture, and you know, like Drucker one said, and we think it’s true, “culture eats strategy for lunch.” That’s true, but you’ve still got to have a good strategy, so you’ve got to have both. I mean, Drucker’s not saying like you’ve got good culture if you have strategy. So, you guys – I remember Giselle meeting with us, like guys, your sustainable strategy score is very, very low for a church your size, you know, and the scale that you guys are at. Again, it was humbling for us. Because the strategy is clear in our head. We’re intuitive leaders, like we know what we’re doing. But the staff is telling us, like guys, we don’t know where we’re going, we don’t know how we’re going to get there, and that was a real turning point for us. We started – I’m a big Pat Lencioni guy. A bunch of us read his stuff, so organizational health, and he wrote the book called The Advantage that was really helpful for us where he talked about there are four disciplines every organization must have in order to develop a healthy culture and take advantage of organizational health. Number one is you have to have a cohesive leadership team. We work really diligently on that. Then you must create clarity. You must communicate clarity, and you must reinforce clarity. And so we just set about like a year process to say, okay, clarify the mission, clarify the vision, clarify priorities, clarify strategic drivers, clarify cooperations, and we’re going to do strategic planning, and we’ve done that over the last three years. So I’d say right now what we’re seeing is the fruit of that combination of a commitment to discipleship where we’re just – we’re simply trying to just listen and obey Jesus. We’re not perfect at it, of course, but we’re really committed to that, and getting a clear strategy and then communicating that and reinforcing that. We’re seeing both of those things working right now like we’ve never seen before, and we think that’s been part of God’s grace upon us and why we’re growing in both our culture and in, you know, the size of the church.
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Robert: Yes. Yes. So you kept focused on the main thing, which is the discipleship part, the growing in your relationship with Christ and leadership doesn’t replace that. It’s built upon that, I guess, in some ways.
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Greg: That’s right.
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Robert: And then you were talking about your scores. It sounds like you had strong inspirational leadership scores which is the strongest predictor of growth and the most powerful driver in the model. And then you mentioned sustainable strategy was something low, so that was something that was identified. It was just unique to your survey, to your results, to your metrics. We like to share that. Our audience may not be familiar. It’s like going to the doctor for an annual health exam and getting a pinpoint diagnostic in time. That’s what an Employee Engagement Survey sort of does. That was your unique story at the time was sustainable strategy was lagging behind, which you know you can have great gifts and great talent and have the right people on the bus, but if they’re saying, wait, do we know what we’re doing? Do have a plan here?
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Greg: Right.
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Robert: Is it just the giftings and the talent that’s keeping this going, or is sustainable strategy sort of eking ahead of something that we look to, we’re motivated by, and we’re being led by. It sounds like you guys made a lot of great upgrades in that particular area.
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Greg: We did, and we had to find some of the right people to help us. So we’ve got some really talented leaders that came from the marketplace. You know, we’ve leveraged consultants in the past that have been really key until we had critical talent on the inside that we now have and then we’re just integrating – iterating – how we grow the strategic planning process. But the way that – I think the best definition I’ve heard for culture is the way attitudes, behaviors, relationships, and systems combine together that impact the way we feel. Because culture is – you know, you can’t – it’s in the air. It’s the air you breathe. But I love the combination of those four things because how you show up, your attitude, that matters, behaviors, and we can talk more about we’ve done a lot of work to define our culture and to define our behaviors. That’s been huge. Relationships. How do we interact with one another? But the one that often gets lost is the systems. And so, to the point you just made, there are a lot of organizations that have really good talent, strong, you know visionary leaders, and some really good people, executors, but if you don’t have the right systems to scale it and the right strategy and infrastructure to sustain it and to build it, you’re not going to grow. So you have to have both, and a lot of visionary leaders get really bored with systems and structure, and the reality is you have to have both. We’ve worked really diligently to create a culture that right sizes and leverages both.
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Narrator: Leading well starts with listening well. At Best Christian Workplaces, our Employee Engagement Survey helps you collect honest, anonymous feedback from your staff so you can lead with clarity. When you understand what drives team engagement, you retain top talent, increase productivity, reduce turnover, and uncover cost savings. We equip Christian leaders with research-driven insight to strengthen culture and lead with purpose. Because when your people flourish, your mission impact multiplies. Visit workplaces.org to learn more today.
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Robert: So I want to touch in on that aspect of the church growth happening in terms of numbers, expansion, all those things that churches seek and pray for is making a bigger impact in their communities, but at the same time you grew healthier internally as a staff culture. Was there – did the challenge shift as the church was growing? In other words, was the growth creating additional strain on the internal staff culture that might not otherwise happen had you not been growing? Because you’re really growing like very fast, faster than normal. Did you notice anything like that? That the growth of the church put additional strain that created a deeper focus on internal staff culture?
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Greg: Yes, for sure, especially before COVID. We had explosive growth before COVID, and that’s when we were just barely healthy, like 4.02 on the survey. COVID hits, and what that really provided us, like I said before, we were super humbled and gutted in a lot of ways and came to confront the brutal facts that we’ve got to do things better, more intentionally in regard to keeping the main thing the main thing, making disciples, staying committed to the mission. We never drifted on the mission. We just – we weren’t being as intelligent – err – intentional as we are now. And so what happens is we built it back up. We have always put a lot of focus on culture, but we – it’s like Pastor Aaron is very gifted at this, like slow and steady growth is kind of like the way. You don’t get to 192 years old with just a flash in the pan. So it’s kind of like that mindset to say, okay, what do we have to do to prepare our staff for what God might do in the future? And let’s stay really focused on that. In Jim Collin’s book, How the Mighty Fall, he talks about an undisciplined pursuit of growth. Well, we read all this stuff, and we’re like, well, you know, this is a really large church. It has a lot of influence, and we don’t want to fall. So what’s it look like to have a disciplined pursuit of growth? So a lot of that was the commitment to, you know routinely surveying our staff, getting clear on the culture, getting clear on the values and behaviors, and all of that work really happened while we had sustainable growth, and in the last couple of years is when we’ve seen the hockey stick of growth. And so what I would say is because we learned from it in the past, and that’s where I would say if you’re leading an organization and you’ve never experienced that kind of growth, it’s like make sure you are focusing on the health of the staff and making sure your systems and you’ve got the right players in the right spot, and then stay at it because eventually . . You know, I read Mark Batterson’s book recently called Gradually Then Suddenly. It’s like long vision, gradually and then suddenly, so that now that we’re seeing some explosive growth, yes, it’s putting strain on our culture, but we’re playing from a place of strength, like we’ve been flourishing the last two years as we’ve seen the explosive growth. I mean in 20 – I’ll give context – like in 2024 we baptized 748 people. In 2025 we baptized 2,119. That is significant kingdom growth. The good thing is, it’s like when you have a healthy culture and you have a big vision and you’ve got the systems and process that support it, that creates a lot of reinforcing momentum where our team is like – talk about life-giving work – we’re seeing life change at a very high rate, and that just motivates us to stay in the game, to stay ahead of it. But I would say because we have – we are hyper diligent at defining our culture, which came through those hard years. So if you’ve been at it for a while and you don’t have a really clear culture, you need to go do that. You can’t expect a ton of growth, or you might get growth but then it’s going to fall apart, be a house of cards, because you aren’t strong at the core, or if you haven’t seen the big growth, stay diligent on the culture, have a big vision, and make sure you get – make sure you stay at it, has been a really key part of, I think, what’s enabled us to grow, you know, from a place of health and then, you know, you just got to try to stay ahead of it, which is what we’re working on right now.
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Robert: Yeah. You said from a place of health. So internal culture does not flourish because the church is growing. It’s likely more of the reverse of that.
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Greg: The church is growing . . .
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Robert: The church can grow.
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Greg: Right. Because you have a healthy staff. There was a moment, I’d say in maybe 2022-ish, Pastor Aaron and I were having a meeting. That’s our Lead Pastor, Aaron Brockett, him and I were having a meeting and I remember him asking me a question. He said, Greg, do you ever worry that we talk so much about culture? Because we do. We talk about the health of the culture and we fight for it like crazy. He'll say, culture’s like a microorganism. It’s really delicate. You’ve got to tend to it. He said, do you ever feel like we talk about it so much that the unintended consequence is our staff is beginning to hear like the goal is healthy culture or that the mission is healthy culture? And so, we wrestled with that and we came under conviction, like yeah, I think we have, and so the correction was every time we talk about culture now - you know, we just recently got our results from the survey and we shared with the team – we always reinforce - we all own the culture. This isn’t like you guys evaluating us. We all own it, and culture is a means to the end. It’s not the end in and of itself. The end is the mission of God advancing. But the health of our culture determines how effective the mission will advance – how effectively the mission advances, and so we just keep that in front, and it’s like you just can’t get it, right, you can’t get around it. So leaders that don’t pay attention to the health of the culture, you’re not checking to see how your employees are engaged, you’re missing out on some really key, you know, lead indicators to how the futures going to be, and I think sometimes leaders fall into kind of this belief – I think it’s a false belief – that this is the soft stuff, like these are soft skills and it’s like, ahh, does it really matter? We just got to have the compelling vision, and we’ve got to, you know, have the resources, whatever, and it’s like, yeah, but your people are the most important resources, and you must – we talk about value adds to our staff all the time. We work hard to compensate them fairly and well and we have really great benefits. All of that matters, but, as you get – of the eight drivers, I think rewarding compensation is the least impactful. It matters, but it isn’t the top driver. You’ve got to have all the other stuff. Well, we are always saying, like how else do we add value to our staff? I mean, how does our staff know and feel that we love them, that we care for them? How do we – how do we show them? And so that’s where there are a lot of little things. We work with our People Department. It’s like, man, what ways can we . . . ? It’s a little handwritten note when somebody loses their dog. You know, it’s like little stuff like that all matters and why it matters is it communicates we love you. We care for you. This isn’t just what you do for the church. It’s like we love you because God loves you and you matter. And so all of that stuff just – you know, it infuses health into the culture and as the culture gets healthier, the mission moves forward.
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Robert: Yeah. The Bible says know the condition of your flock.
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Greg: That’s right.
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Robert: Yeah. And there is, not only what you guys have experienced as a church culture and growth in the church, but the data is crystal clear that healthy culture has a direct correlation to kingdom impact. Churches will rise and fall based on the health of their culture. You can collapse as a church if your culture is toxic and is deteriorating in that way, and it’s negligence on caring for ones who are carrying the mission because ultimately the people, the people at your church, are carrying the mission, the thing that – so there is – you can’t really separate the kingdom impact, the mission, from the culture because they’re so entwined and it’s a symbiotic relationship there, for sure.
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Greg: Yep.
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Robert: Yeah. I think that will be encouraging to leaders who are . . . You know, I can think back on as I’ve done pastor work myself, I didn’t even know what the words employee engagement meant as a pastor. You know, it just sounded like HR jargon, but it’s – there’s richness and depth and real kingdom implications there.
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Greg: For sure.
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Robert: So I want to ask you a little bit about the growth again. As a ministry gets larger, there’s likely opportunity to do more, leaders can build more, those kinds of things. But the harder question is what you have to protect as you’re growing as a church. I’d love for you to kind of share some insights into what were you as a church unwilling to sacrifice in the name of church growth?
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Greg: Yeah. That’s a great question. Well, I think the first thing is, it’s true, the old adage is true, everything rises and falls on leadership, so what you must protect is the integrity of the leaders, and that’s ultimately on each individual leader, but it’s also on the culture that you create around it in terms of accountability, and we take that very, very diligently. I’d say it’s one of the things that as both the culture has grown, and you can measure that, the church size and impact has grown, you can measure that, what you can’t measure, but I think has been critical in all this, is I think the spiritual growth and maturity of the leadership. I’m talking elders, I’m talking executive team, I’m talking campus pastors, really all of the staff, in terms of a pursuit of integrity and personal holiness. I mean it’s something we talk about a lot. We just had a week of prayer and fasting a couple weeks ago and we talked about the core tenets of having a holy fear of God and personal holiness and living and leading in light of his imminent return, and we spent a whole week as a staff praying and fasting around that. There was a moment in early 2025, and again 2025 is when we saw the hockey stick growth begin to really take off, and we’re still seeing it in 2026, where we were going to have a worship night and we were going to lead those that came to the worship night to have a moment of confession and repentance and identify, ask God, is there any sin patterns in my life, you know strongholds that need to be broken, let’s ask God to break them tonight, and confess it to somebody, we had prayer people all over. So we were anticipating that, and we had a staff meeting that – we have a monthly staff meeting, it is kind of the highlight of the month, we go big, we worship, we celebrate and equip them – and we were talking and we were like, you know we need to ask the staff to go first, but we had never done anything quite the way we were talking about doing it. And so I remember I got up there and I ended the meeting and I invited them to do what we were going to invite the church to do, and I said, hey, we have campus pastors around the room. You know at the time it was probably 100 and – I don’t know – 150 staff in the room and I said, you know James says you confess your sin to one another, pray for one another that you’ll be healed, and so we want you to do some work with God, confess your sin to God, and then we’re going to give you space to confess to one of us. Now, I had no idea how people would respond because you know, it’s like these are your employers. It’s like, I had no idea. But we did it, and it was – it was one of those days I’ll always remember. One of staff members was in the back of the room. So I ended up getting down – I get down off the stage and I’m standing there, and I look up and there are three people in my line to confess sin to me. It went on for probably 30 to 45 minutes, and later one of our leaders was kind of in the back of the room watching it all, and I remember she said, Greg, I bet two-thirds of our staff got in line to confess sin. Now, ya’ll might hear that and be like, well, you’ve got a really unholy staff. It’s like well, we’re all sinners and what I would like to say in that moment is our staff became a whole lot more holy and a whole lot more righteous because we created, I think, in that moment, what God did is He created a culture among Traders Point staff that says – you know, one of our behaviors is embrace brokenness – so we’re all broke and we all are sinners in need of salvation, in need of grace, in need of constant forgiveness - and we created a culture that said it’s okay to not be okay, but it’s not okay to be living in sin and not confessing it, confronting it, and repenting. And we started doing that every time we got in front of them. We would lead moments like that, and so much so that a couple weeks ago when we the week of prayer and fasting I had three staff members just pop in my office and they confessed sin to me. Again, I’m talking about like pride, or I’m talking about like you know one of them was like I did this thing and God showed me there was pride. You know, one was I have been exaggerating the truth, I’ve been lying, so I’m just saying like protecting integrity has been absolutely critical and something you can’t underscore the importance of that, and then I’d say protecting the culture has been huge for us, that we’ve protecting. I said it before, but for us it was a really diligent process to identify our core values and we spent a couple of years because when you identify core values a lot of times the mistake leaders make is you end up determining aspirational values - this is what we want our culture to be about - instead of being real and saying, who are we really at our core, when we’re at our best, you know, and so for us it was humble, hungry, healthy. And then we did that for a couple of years, and then we realized like, well, it’s kind of hard for people to know exactly how does that behave? Like, how do the values show up? How do I behave in a way consistent with our culture? And so what we did is spend a couple years extracting how we behave, so the question we asked, how do our best behave when they’re at their best? What does humble, hungry, healthy look like at Traders? And we came up with what we now call the Traders Ten, and those Ten really define our culture. And so we teach that. We hire for the Ten. You know, like we’ve got a whole list of questions. Executive leaders have seen those and spoken into them. Like, we hire for culture. We train and reinforce culture and we perform as management for misalignment with the cultural behaviors, and if you don’t have that as a leader, it’s really hard to create a culture that is going to consistently engage employees at a high level because they’re kind of throwing at the dark. Like what exactly do you guys expect of me? We are very clear what we expect and we celebrate them like crazy, you know, when they do it. And now we’ve been doing this for, I’d say two or three years the Traders Ten have been really clear. I would say if a staff member falls into a habitual pattern of anti-behaviors, you stand out like a sore thumb. Everybody knows it, and we’re going to do everything we can to help them, you know, get healed and get back aligned, but that’s been a really, really big deal that we fight for and we are protecting. When the culture is at it’s best is when people are correcting it themselves, you know colleagues are correcting instead of like your leader has to like sit down and say, hey man, you’ve been misaligned or whatever. It’s like we don’t have that a whole lot. Like it rarely hits my desk that somebody is misaligned. It’s like they’re self-correcting it which is a sign of a really healthy culture. And then I think the last thing we protect is, that I’d say, is we protect consistency in the way we evaluate how our culture is doing, and so, meaning like with BCW, we have our culture assessed at the same time every year. We do it at May, which is the end of the ministry season, and there have been times where we’re like, our people are really tired. I mean, this last year we were flourishing in 2025 for the first time. We took it again and our March, April, May was a lot. I mean, our people, we had a lot of ministry that we did in that season, and internally we were like, you know, you sure we’re still taking it in May? Yeah. We’re doing it at the same time because it’s, like you said, it’s going to the doctor, you know it’s like, I joke because this is like going to the doctor, you know, to do lab work two weeks after Christmas and Thanksgiving. It’s like sugars are probably going to be a little high. But it’s okay. It’s the consistency of when we do it. And I’ve had a few conversations with my colleagues who have told me, off the record of course, they’re like, hey man, like maybe I knew they worked with you guys, and I said, hey, are you still BCW? And they said, oh no, we stopped. I said, why did you stop? They said, oh, our culture was coming off the rails, and we were taking some big hits. We made some big decisions that I know the culture didn’t like and so we stopped doing it. And I look at them and I’m just loving, and I understand it, but I’m like, man, that’s like you got some, something wrong and your empty, you’ve got some bloodwork that’s off or something unhealthy, and you stop going to the doctor and you stop doing the scans, man. I’m like, you’ve got to stay with it. And so, I know it takes a lot of courage, but you guys, I think there is value in consistency and just like, hey, what’s – so lucky for us, we’ve had - Giselle’s been with us the whole time. It’s been awesome to just – she’s watched our growth. She helps advise us on action plans, and then we do it. You know I was talking to an xp the other day, and they just got their survey back. I’m like, do you guys have action plans? They were like, no. I was like, well, it’s – again, it’s like your cholesterol is high and we need to go eat different and move different and that’s why you measure it. If you don’t measure, you can’t manage it. So let’s measure it and then let’s get a plan to improve it. That’s why I’ve always valued the partnership because you guys help dial in the plan real specifically. So we don’t try to tackle several things. We’ll tackle two or three things, and we just say, here’s our plan. Over the next year we’re going to try to move the needle and that strategic approach over time is paying off.
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Robert: Yeah. We definitely – first of all, amazing insight there, a lot there, and I know this is one of those episodes you want to go listen to two or three times to get those nuggets and write them down, take some notes, but yeah, there is a clear correlation in consistency and measuring, prioritizing culture, like you guys do every year like that, and kingdom impact. The data shows that as well.
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Greg: Yes.
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Robert: It’s not just something you’re experiencing. So as you focus on culture, as you measure, as you take real action and have a commitment to that, you will see growth in your internal culture and ultimately that leads to kingdom impact.
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Greg: True.
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Robert: I’m blessed by this conversation. Pastor Greg, thank you so much. We love watching the incredible growth that God is doing through you and your church. We’re just honored that you all have been partnering with us for so many years and still on fire for this.
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Greg: Oh yeah.
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Robert: You’re still so focused and seeing and understanding the value in all of this.
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Greg: Absolutely.
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Robert: So we are just thrilled having you all as partners, so thank you so much for being an advocate for Best Christian Workplaces and ultimately, more importantly, kingdom growth. That’s what it’s all about.
[0:31:36.5]
Greg: Yeah. Absolutely. We’re very grateful for the partnership. And if can, Robert, I just want to say one more thing to leaders that are listening. I think this is critical advice I heard recently, and I want to pass it on because it’s really marked me. This is from one of the top in the country, who told me that he was given this advice by one of, I think, one of the top lead pastors in the country. He said, as your organization grows, it is mission critical for the leaders, so in the church world it’s lead pastor, executive pastors, you know, in the organization, non Christian organizations, it’s the leadership team, but it is mission critical to keep the spiritual intensity high because I think, and we’ve seen it so many times, organizations, churches in particular I’m talking, that grow and see a lot of growth, the need for system, structure, scaling, all of that is critical. Otherwise, you won’t grow. But what can happen is it can choke out the work of the Spirit and all of sudden what began in the Spirit begins to try to be perfected in the flesh and we cannot have that, and I believe God’s on the verge of a revival in the church. I think we’re starting to see it. We’re praying for it. In fact, as soon as I get off this call I’m on a call with church leaders all across our city where we’re praying for and talking about, what does revival look like? And so I just want to share that and encourage all of us as leaders to say there is no substitute for your own relationship with God and whatever it takes to keep the spiritual intensity high and the passion high in your own relationship with God and among the leaders of your team, we’ve got to do it.
[0:33:09.8]
Robert: Amen. Thank you pastor.
[0:33:15.2]
Greg: Yeah. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
[0:33:16.6]
Robert: Absolutely. We’ll have to have you back again soon. To everyone listening, if this conversation was helpful, or if you think it would be helpful to a colleague, a friend, another leader, share it with that leader. Just send it. It’s the easiest way to inspire church growth or leadership growth or culture growth. Just hit click and forward it on to a friend, colleague, loved one, anyone you think would benefit from this. Be sure to subscribe yourself to the Called to Flourish podcast so you do not miss what’s coming next. Thank ya’ll for listening. God bless you.