Barry: Every business doesn’t standalone as a silo. It affects the community around it. It affects the employees, their families. It has quite a ripple effect. And we want to make sure, as Christian businesspeople, that we are addressing Kingdom concepts, as well as business concepts.
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Narrator: This is the Called to Flourish Podcast, where leaders and cultures grow.
Robert: Welcome to the Called to Flourish Podcast, where leaders and cultures flourish. My name is Robert Wachter, I’m the Global Marketing Director here at Best Christian Workplaces. And if you’re watching this on YouTube, I’d encourage you to make a comment or share the video. If you’re listening on your favorite podcast device, share it. Share it with a colleague, a friend, anybody you think would get value out of the content today.
But I am excited to introduce our guest for the episode today, Barry Slauenwhite, and Barry is a colleague here at Best Christian Workplaces. He’s our Canadian Regional Director, so he’s representing our Canadian partners. Barry is also President Emeritus of Compassion Canada, where he served for 26 faithful years. Barry is also the author of The Leadership Paradox and Strategic Compassion. Welcome to the Called to Flourish Podcast, Barry.
Barry: Hey, it’s great to be here. Good to join you, Rob.
Robert: Yes, pleasure to have you. So today, we’re going to be touching on the subject of business as ministry, and how marketplace leadership can be more than profit, or even social good, but a strategic platform that God can use for a greater eternal purpose and impact. And this is a topic that I know is close to Barry’s heart and his work and the talks that he does. And so, Barry, you know, want to glean your insights into this subject. You know, we spend 40 hours usually or more at our workplace, interacting with our colleagues, you know, our staff, our vendors, our customers, and so it’s a big deal. How are we representing in the marketplace as business leaders, Christian leaders, to everyone around us? And so, I’m just curious, kind of what got your interest into this sort of marketplace? And how we can represent Christ well in that environment?
Barry: So, I kind of came into this honestly, if you will. I grew up in a home where my dad has his own business and all of us sons, all ended up in our own businesses. So, I started in business before I even finished high school and learned a lot of skills from my dad. I learned a lot from experience. And then a few years later, God called me into full time ministry as a pastor. And so, I ended up bringing or importing, if you will, many of my business skills into ministry. And I learned also that the business world is also a ministry. And I learned that work is not just a career, but it's actually a sacred trust. And so, that concept of ministry and business has been part of my DNA my entire life.
Robert: Yeah, I've heard you talk about, you know, this idea of the triple bottom line. So, traditionally, business leaders think of ROI. They're thinking of return on investment. Now, I don't know if you coined, if you coined this term, because if you did, kudos, because I love it.
Barry: If I did, there would be a book out already on it.
Robert: Oh, gotcha. But the idea of return on eternity. That idea of a business leader thinking about more than just the bottom line, but a triple bottom line. Talk to us about that.
Barry: Yeah. And as Christian, as Christian businesspeople, we learn to measure, as you said, the ROI differently. So, instead of only looking at a return on investment, and you can't discount that, you have to look at return on investment or you don't stay in business.
Robert: Exactly.
Barry: But we also look at return on eternity. So, I call it the ROE. And basically, there's three components, and that's why we call it the triple bottom line. There's the financial impact of your business, profit is necessary, but it's not the ultimate goal. There's the social impact. So, communities, organizations, people around you are blessed by the ethical, by the just, by the generous way you conduct your business. And then there's a spiritual impact. There's eternal outcomes that are often shaped when the decisions we make as business leaders reflect Christ's values.
So, you know that every business doesn’t stand alone as a silo. It affects the community around it. It affects the employees, their families. It has quite a ripple effect. And we want to make sure, as Christian businesspeople, that we are addressing Kingdom concepts, as well as business concepts.
Robert: Yeah, when I hear that, I think of it, and correct me if I'm wrong, but as kind of a lens, a filter or a lens to look through as our daily idiosyncrasies, decisions, the daily things that we're doing as business leaders, when we're making those decisions and implementing those things, it's like a lens we look through where we're filtering not only financial return and impact, but social. And I think a lot of companies have done better in that. Especially with the younger generations, there seems to be a stronger social component, which is great. But the spiritual impact piece of it, and I think that's where Christian business leaders can really make some headway and do some exciting work for the kingdom that will last well beyond their years, here into eternity.
Barry: Yeah, this is one thing again, I learned so much from my dad. This is one thing that he taught me, and it was kind of counterproductive for the business world that he lived in. I remember he had for a time a chief financial officer, and that guy only had one pair of glasses. All he could see, all he could think of was money. That’s probably why dad hired him, right? That wasn't my father's expertise. But he was so single focused. Where my dad, he had lenses, he had glasses that had multiple lenses. He would definitely look at the financial bottom line, but he cared about his staff. He cared about his employees. He went out of his way to be kind to them, to care for their families. So that was another lens.
He also cared about the spiritual impact that he and his business had. And I'm sure my dad gave more money to ministry than he gave to himself. It was just incredible.
So, we looked through what I like to call kingdom lenses. We look at integrity over expediency. So, the short-term gains are never worth the long-term compromises, as sometimes you feel forced to do in business. And then there's a lens of people over profit, employees, customers, suppliers, they are all image bearers, not just economic units. So, we need to treat them accordingly.
And then there's the purpose over popularity. You know, there are all kinds of trends in the business world. But faithfulness to Christ's mission, that lasts forever. We need to learn to make choices that sometimes the culture around us don't understand, like the financial specialist didn't understand. But Heaven celebrates those kinds of choices that we make as Christian businesspeople. There's short-term losses, but there's also eternal gains that we need to have and keep in perspective.
Robert: Yeah, short-term losses. So, sometimes this lens would require of marketplace leaders to make decisions that may not be as rewarding in the short term, maybe from a technical standpoint. But it's doing the right thing. It's making a decision that honors Christ first and foremost, which we know will lead to far greater dividends long term, both here and in eternity. Any examples of what some of those decisions might look like? That short term versus eternal gain decision-making that really comes right down to purpose over popularity?
Barry: Yeah, so in practical terms. So, your business decisions, they ripple out further than you and I could ever imagine. Your leadership impacts employees, families, as I mentioned earlier about my dad. It impacts customers and it impacts the community culture around you. So, when you treat employees with dignity, their families feel it. My dad didn't always hire Christians. But man, did he ever have a huge spiritual impact on many of the people that he hired and even their families.
Then when you practice generosity, your community is strengthened. I love it around me here where I live in London, Ontario, Canada. I'm aware of a lot of businesses. One in particular, I can walk to from my house, they sell sporting goods, they sell motorcycles and boats and everything. But man, they practice generosity to the community, and the reputation they have gained over the last 30, 40 years has just been absolutely incredible. And it's strengthened the community around us. No political overtones. Not looking for anything in particular in return. But just practicing generosity.
And then making ethical choices. Our testimony opens the doors for us to share the gospel. And you know when we make the decision to be a Christian businessperson and to live and operate in a way that honors God, we have to remember that our actions must also mirror the words that we say. We can't just tell people how to do it or how to live. We need to be practicing that in our everyday activities.
Robert: Right. First and foremost, leading the way. Yeah, it really resonates with me when you talk about how it impacts families. I think that old term, you know, taking my work home with me. Sometimes we're not taking our actual work home, but we're taking the baggage of the stresses that have been put upon us by, you know, a boss, a leader who didn't treat us well, or whatever it might be. And you know, mom or dad comes home and is in a bad mood, right? And then the families feel the ripple effects of when it's going well and there's strong dynamics of relationships, and you treat your employees really well, and they come home, and there's gratification there. It is felt by the people around us. I love that. It couldn’t be more practical than that and making a difference and impacting families.
The community piece also, you know, I've done a lot of kind of promotional, marketing work, sponsorships and things like that, in my career. And as businesses get involved in their community, and they show that they genuinely care, you know, usually you can tell if it's if it's being done for the wrong reasons, right? It's like, we're going to we're going to help out just because we want to—
Barry: One of the quick ways you can tell is how much advertising they put on for what they do for the community.
Robert: Yes, exactly. Right. But what's interesting is, Jesus said that if you cast your bread upon the water or give, and it will be given to you. So, there's this spiritual principle as we truly, genuinely trust Christ with our businesses and where we invest and say, “Hey, I'm going to bless my community,” as a business. I'm not asking for anything in return. I'm not doing it to necessarily be noticed. But God opens just doors of giving back to you when we're generous in that way, that generosity is reciprocal. As they say, you can't out give God. And I think when leaders have a heart like that and they genuinely care and invest in their communities, that is going to lead to a growth of the business, ultimately, when it's done from the right place. It might not always be the case, but you know, it's interesting when people recognize this business, these leaders actually really seem to care, and they're really getting involved in things that matter in our community. That's just going to build trust. It's going to build all kinds of great things that would be a beautiful spiritual byproduct of that kind of investment. Which, as you were saying, ultimately leads to the Gospel, right? People being open to the Gospel, which you wouldn’t think of that asw a business.
Barry: Yeah. I think, to see our marketplace as our pulpit, right? Our influence as our pulpit, our boardrooms as our mission field, our business as our ministry. We need to have that mindset. Too often, and I don’t mean to be critical, because I've fallen into this now and again myself. But too often we take off our Kingdom hat and put on our business hat, you know, at eight o'clock in the morning, and then we go through the day with that business hat on, then we take that off and put our Kingdom hat on when we go to our family or we go to a church meeting or whatever. But we need to be having that ministry hat on all the time. Because God will open up opportunities throughout the day for us to be His voice, to be his hand extended, to be his feet, and we need to be aware of that happening and when we do, when we take that approach, God bless us, God bless us.
Robert: Yes, I gotta say, I am encouraged by the partners that we worked with at Best Christian Workplaces, with our marketplace partners. There are so many Christian leaders in the marketplace that do genuinely want to reflect Christ to the world. And when they do that, it is so encouraging, and it really does make a difference. And I want to believe that there are some who are tuning in, and you're a business leader, and this is just the Holy Spirit reminding us all of the importance of this. And when we truly put Him first, you know, the Jesus says, if you put Him first, the Kingdom of God first, all these other things will be added to you. So, as we get our priorities right and trust Him first with how we treat our employees, how we invest in the community, how we make every little decision, through that lens that you talked about, Barry, I just feel that's going to lend the blessings of the Lord on a business. So, I’m always—
Barry: Absolutely.
Robert: --about seeing so many amazing marketplace Christian leaders out there who are doing this very thing. And so, very inspiring.
Barry: And we're not just building a company, right? We're building the kingdom. We are actually—I have been a businessman. I have been a pastor. I've led a Christian para-church organization. And I am convinced that when we approach business like we just talked about, like you and I just talked about, when we do that, we are just as much in ministry as the Pastor standing behind the pulpit. And sometimes we can have a greater influence on the community than the Pastor behind the pulpit. I'm not discounting the Pastor. I was one. I am one. I just have lots of appreciation for them. But those of us sitting in the pew, those of us going into the office or on the workplace, into the marketplace, we need to realize and remember, we also are Pastors. We also are missionaries. We don't discount the impact we have just because we have a different title, or we don't stand behind a pulpit.
Robert: Absolutely. And it’s where God has sent us.
Barry: Amen.
Robert: You know, if God has sent you there, there's a purpose, a kingdom purpose behind it. I love that. And I think we all need a reminder of that. We don't need to be on the pulpit. We don't need to be the worship leader. We don't need to be in those offices or those spaces to know that God has sent us, he has placed us to make a difference in the people around us. I love that.
Barry: Amen.
Robert: Well, Barry, I'm blessed by this conversation and this reminder. I believe that many, many others will be blessed when they are reminded of these things. And I want to end our time with something fun, okay?
Barry: Ut-oh.
Robert: So, I'm going to throw some rapid fire questions your way.
Barry: Oh, yikes.
Robert: Totally random, okay? So, we can learn a little bit more about. And I know, I think I know the answer to this first one because I’ve been working with you for a few years. But what's your favorite Canadian treat? Is it the butter tarts or poutine?
Barry: Oh, hands down, butter tarts. Hands down. Oh, my goodness. I would crawl on my hands and knees for a butter tart. I like poutine, but I can only eat it so often. I could eat a butter tart every day.
Robert: I gotta tell you, I don't even know what poutine is, but I want to try it. It sounds good.
Barry: I'll bring some to you next time we get together.
Robert: Okay, okay. I got another question.
Barry: Ut-oh.
Robert: This is a big one, okay? I genuinely don't know the answer to this. I may, but I'm not sure where you're going to land on this. So Blue Jays championship or Canadian Hockey Olympic gold medal?
Barry: Oh, that's like arriving in heaven and Peter asked you at the front gate, the Golden Gate, do you want a house made of gold or do you want a house made of silver? You know, having last year come through, the Blue Jays scenario, and how I know they didn't win, but boy, they shocked a lot of people how good they did. I'm more of a baseball fan than a hockey fan, so I'm going to go with Blue Jays.
Robert: There you go. So, close this year, Barry.
Barry: Sorry Sidney Crosby, sorry. Sidney and I grew up in the same area, same town. Hope he doesn’t get after me for that.
Robert: Well, you knocked off my beloved Mariners. So, there's the love of the Lord still.
Barry: Sorry about that. In Canada, you know, we say sorry a lot. So, sorry.
Robert: Next year, we’ve got next year. All right. We're going to wrap it up there. Thank you for all of your time, Barry, and your insights, and thank you for tuning in today to the podcast.
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And we'll be back with you in short order for our next episode. So, stay tuned to the Called to Flourish podcast until next time, God Bless you.