Transcript: Leadership Lessons from the Military to Liberty University (LU): Dr. Dondi Costin's Journey // Dr. Dondi Costin, Liberty University

Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast

“Leadership Lessons from the Military to Liberty University (LU): Dr. Dondi Costin's Journey“

May 13, 2024

Dr. Dondi Costin

Intro: When you're in a new leadership role, how do you assess the strengths and challenges you face, and how do you keep your whole team focused on the mission and vision of your organization, especially in a large organization? Well, today on the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast, we'll look at how the new president of Liberty University, Dr. Dondi Costin, is investing and understanding and improving their workplace culture. Listen in for practical steps you can implement in your own leadership situation.

Welcome: Welcome to the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast, your home for open, honest, and insightful conversations to help develop your leadership, your team, and build a flourishing workplace culture.

Al Lopus: Hello, I'm Al Lopus, the co-founder of the Best Christian Workplaces and author of the book Road to Flourishing: Eight Keys to Boost Employee Engagement and Well-Being. And I'm passionate about helping Christian leaders like you create engaged, flourishing workplaces.

Today I’m delighted to welcome Dr. Dondi Costin to the podcast. Dondi's the president of Liberty University.

And throughout our conversation, you’ll hear Dondi Costin talk about an effective approach to starting as the president of a new organization; the importance of discovering the health of your organization's culture early on, even knowing that it might be like taking a punch in the face; how visibility builds trust in relationships, impacting the factors of inspirational leadership and healthy communication; also, three key functions of a CEO and how building authentic Christian culture is core to Liberty's future of building champions for Christ; on leadership-development priorities and the importance of front-line management; and his own developmental high points as a leader, including his eighth-grade teacher and his Air Force Academy experiences, where their goal is to build leaders of character for America.

I think you're going to love this interview with Dr. Dondi Costin. But before we dive in, welcome to a new episode brought to you by the Best Christian Workplaces. Are you ready to explore the true spirit of your organization? With our Employee Engagement Survey, you're not only measuring metrics, but you're unlocking the potential of your workplace. Simple to implement and profound in impact, our surveys are your gateway to understanding and enhancing your workplace culture. By becoming a certified best Christian workplace, you're not only attracting exceptional talent, but also nurturing an engaged, motivating team. Start your journey to a more fulfilling work environment today by visiting workplaces.org. Let's build a future where your values and vision resonate through your entire organization.

And hello to our new listeners. Thanks for joining us as we honor your investment of time, creating valuable episodes like this.

And now let me tell you a little more about Dr. Dondi Costin. Dr. Costin began serving as Liberty's president in July 2023. He returned to Liberty, his alma mater, after five years as president of Charleston Southern University. He's a retired major general with more than 32 years of commission service in a military career that culminated as a senior leader in the Pentagon, where he served as the Air Force chief of chaplains. He was commissioned as a second lieutenant upon graduating from the United States Air Force Academy. He then served in the Air Force as an industrial engineer, chief of scientific analysis, and assistant professor of aerospace studies at Texas Christian University. After 10 years as a line officer, he became an Air Force chaplain in 1996. He's an ordained Southern Baptist minister. He has graduate degrees from Liberty University; Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary; Southwest Baptist Theological Seminary; the Air Command and Staff College; and the Air War College; and the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, where he earned a D.Min. in Evangelism and church growth and a Ph.D. in leadership. He's also earned numerous awards during his military career and for community service.

So, here’s my conversation with Dr. Dondi Costin.

Dondi, it’s great to have you on the podcast, and I’m really looking forward to our conversation today.

Dondi Costin: Thanks, Al. It's great to be on with you.

Al: Well, Dondi, you're still new in your position as president of Liberty University, and you started really just less than a year ago. But early in your tenure, you decided to focus on faculty and staff culture. So why culture, and why did you decide to undertake an Employee Engagement Survey so quickly? What did you hope to learn from surveying your employees so soon after you started?

Dondi: A lot of it came from my previous institution, having been in leadership positions the last probably 15 years of my life, significant leadership positions. What I discovered is that the thing that makes the most difference in an individual's life is culture. And so, as you and I have spoken before, culture is simply the way we do things around here.

And so I read your book, about as soon as it came out, and as I've said in front of you and behind your back well before I met you, is your book, Road to Flourishing, encapsulates everything that had been on my mind for a bunch of years. And so we had our senior team at the last institution read the book. It puts things in ways that are easily understandable. And so when we came to Liberty University, before I showed up, about two months before I showed up, I asked every senior leader—so every VP, every dean, every vice provost, all the way around—I asked every senior leader to fill out a series of questions about all kinds of things, you know, what's going well, what's going poorly, what could be done better, etc. And a common theme among all was that we needed some work on our culture.

And so having studied Kotter’s eight steps of change management, the first step is creating a sense of urgency. Well, I didn't have to do that. The sense of urgency was already there. And as a new guy, it just, it gave me a great opportunity to without having to wait for a strategic plan, it gave me the opportunity with our senior team to say, “Yeah, this is something we can work on now, and there's no need to wait.”

And so that’s what drove it. And we appreciated the fact that you had written the book and your organization had done this all across the country. And so because it was data based and certainly data informed, it spoke volumes to our faculty in particular, but also the rest of us to know that this isn't just some sort of fad we're doing. It's something that we must do, and it's something that everybody knew that they wanted to do and needed to be done. And so that's kind of how we got into it, and I'm grateful for all of the above.

Al: Yeah. Well, Dondi, committing to an Employee Engagement Survey definitely gives a new leader a baseline view of the workplace culture. You started right off with that. And in fact, even though it was your first year, there seemed to already be some built-in momentum in the results. And one of our questions is over the past year, Liberty University has changed for the better, and that showed very positive results. So are there a couple of focus areas that came out of the Survey that you're going to focus on? What are some of the specific steps that you and your leadership team are implementing to address issues that you discovered through the Survey?

Dondi: We all need help in every area, and so we could have done the whole model. And to some extent, I'm sure we will along the way, that there are going to be some marginal and collateral benefits that come along the way, so we look forward to those. But we also knew that we needed to focus on a couple of major factors just so we could at least start eating the elephant, you know, two very large chunks at a time, but very critical ones. And I've so appreciated the humility and the willingness of our senior team to take a punch to the face, if you will. So I said to them very early on, I said, “Hey, guys, we're going to do this. I've been doing this long enough now to know that it's not going to be pretty. It almost never is. Otherwise, there wouldn't be this sense of urgency that we have. But we're going to do it because we need to do it. And we need to demonstrate to our colleagues that we as senior leaders, we want to be held accountable. We want to do the things that God's called us to do. We want to have a culture that is God honoring and Christ exalting. And it's good for faculty and staff because the healthier our culture is for faculty and staff, the better it will be for students.”

And so what came out of our initial study and the things that we're focused on are inspirational leadership and healthy communication. And so, as you know, having done this a long time now, Al, our colleagues were very specific, and they were very helpful. We asked them for input, and they didn't hold back. And so again, what I told our senior team from the very beginning, I said, “This is not a grade. We're not grading you. Your job is not dependent upon this. So please don't feel like if this doesn't go well, your job’s on the line. Because it isn't. We need a baseline. This is our baseline. Now from this point forward, we're going to have, you know, good insights. We're going to have help. Best Christian Workplaces Institute's going to help us out. They're going to put us in the right direction. We're committed to this.”

And I think one of the points I've made over and over again is I'm not going to grow tired of this. This is not a once and done. This is not smoke and mirrors. This is not anything to get us through the honeymoon phase, you know, which any leader in the first year is going to be in. This is something that we're going to do. And so we've baked it into our strategic plan. We've made it one of our major factors. And so we have an acronym that will be revealed shortly that's based on, you know, the mascot of our university. But right in the middle is an A. And the A is authentic Christian culture. And so everything will sort of revolve around that.

Our founder, Dr. Falwell, used to say, “If it's Christian, it ought to be better.” And we've added a corollary to that that says simply this, “If it's Christian, it ought to be Christian.” And so we can't say that we are training champions for Christ in our students and not be committed to living our own lives as champion for Christ and getting along with each other and holding the standard high and being bold and appropriately risky and all of those things. But it has to happen in a way that our culture is reflective of the fruit of the Spirit.

Al: Yeah. And you've picked a couple of areas, Dondi. What areas of those that you're going to be focusing on this year?

Dondi: Yeah. We're focused on inspirational leadership and healthy communication. And so a couple of weeks ago I briefed the results of our focus groups. And so we did the Survey. That came out. And I briefed those results two or three months ago. And then from that came a little deeper dive based on the two major factors that our campus community felt like we needed to focus on, those being, again, inspirational leadership and healthy communication.

So with your team's help, our human-resources team put together a series of focus groups that was highly representative across the campus. And these focus groups sort of dove deeper into inspirational leadership and healthy communication. And for all intents and purposes, the questions asked, what would it take for you to rate our university “strongly agree,” you know, to the factors related to healthy communication and inspirational leadership.

And so, again, the thing I've appreciated about our faculty and staff, and the thing I thanked them for a week or two ago was that they were open, honest, transparent, and I appreciated that. And again, not everything they told us was easy to hear, but that's the way it goes, and that's really the only way you get any better.

Al: Oh, that's a great start. And the size and scope of Liberty University is just amazing. And so doing focus groups and listening the way you've listened not only before you start by asking, what are some of the key themes, but then listening through the Survey, through the focus groups. That's a bit daunting when you look at an enrollment of 135,000 students in your residential and online, and nearly 4,000 full-time and part-time faculty, along with a couple thousand support staff to run the whole system.

So as president, how do you even engage with various parts of the university community? How do you get to know students, faculty, staff, you know, the constituents, your donors, alumni? And you're still in your first year. I'm sure it's like drinking through a fire hose. But, yeah, what are some of the ways that you're already doing it and planning to connect with those groups?

Dondi: The most important word I would use here is intentional. You really have to be intentional. And I appreciate the way you described the various constituencies, because it does seem impossible on occasion. But the fact is, everybody on this campus is called here, and everybody here is valuable to God. And by virtue of that, they're valuable to those of us in senior leadership. And so what we have tried to do as intentionally as possible is make sure that, you know, I am visible, that I'm as visible as humanly possible with God's help. And my wife, Vicki, she's been a huge support in this. And so most of what we do together, you know, after hours traditionally, you know, with concerts and theater productions and athletic events and all that, and during the day, it's been a lot of fun getting to know the university. It is a massive institution, and the benefit that we have here is that the talent that has been attracted really through the decades to Liberty is incredible. And I've found a very real hunger for us to have the kind of culture that would be honoring to Christ. And again, several times a week, people come up to me and they thank me on behalf of everybody else, you know, for tackling the hard problems, for not pretending like they don't exist, for being willing to, as I said earlier, take a punch in the face in the most figurative of senses, but still, you know, and take a punch in the face that is necessary for us to get better.

And that’s really my job. In the inauguration address that I was blessed to give back in October, I said that a leader has three primary functions, and then I assume these functions as my own. And these are first and foremost to be a minder of the mission, to make sure that we never lose sight of what our mission is. And the university has every opportunity to be subject to mission creep and all kinds of other things. And in our case, we are a genuinely, legitimately Christian university. We talk about training champions for Christ, and that's exactly what we do. So the first is minder of the mission. The second is keeper of the culture. Being with people, hearing what's on their minds, being available, being accessible as much as I can be, and hearing what people have to say and then acting on it as best I can. And so minder of the mission, keeper of the culture, and then the third one is steward of the strategy. And so these three things obviously all go together, and I have a thousand things that I have to do. But the three things that only I can do are be a minder of the mission, a keeper of the culture, and a steward of the strategy. And so those are the things I focus on primarily.

Al: Dondi, I've heard many people say the hardest job in Christendom is to be the president of a Christian university. But having clear priorities like you've just described certainly helps prioritize your time.

Well, let's talk about another topic, and one that you're probably just starting to get involved in, and that's leadership development and investing in your leaders. And being visible is certainly one way to get started on this. But you have a large faculty and staff. So while top leadership sets the tone, you need leaders. You need managers. You need supervisors at all levels of the organization. And to be sure that they're all pulling in the same direction. So are there some specific ways that you and your executive team are equipping leaders for the demands of their jobs and to help steer them to be working in the same direction?

Dondi: Yeah. In fact, that's one of the major things that came out of the focus group as an extension of the Survey. And so the message we heard loud and clear, messages we heard loud and clear, the first of those was, “Hey, certainly the VPs and above, you need to be more visible.” And one of the things they said is, “Hey, we see the president. We see he's out there. And social media helps with that. But we need to see more of vice presidents.” And my response was, “Listen, I'm the new guy. I'm doing the listening tour. Any leader would have come and in the first year been very visible. All right. I hope I can sustain it. But, you know, this is all part of the intentional strategy that we're doing.” And you know, Al, it's easy to get in a rut, in a routine, and to lose sight of the big picture. And so I hope to maintain my intentionality on those lines.

But one of the things that we have committed to with senior leadership is just something as simple as what's been called lunch with leaders. Now, it doesn't have to be lunch, but we're going to, on a fairly routine basis, force—I'll use that word myself—force the, you know, the vice president to meet routinely with a representative sample of their organization, their sub organization. And the point we often make here is that, yes, the president has a key role in organizational culture, but a larger organizational culture is really an aggregation of all the micro cultures that are part of the institution. And if the vice presidents and the other—I’ll use military language here—the other subordinate commanders aren't doing the same thing, aren't buying into the culture thing, are sort of saying, “Ah, that's a senior-administration thing. We're not into that here. We have too much work to do,” then you've lost the battle from the get-go. So that's the first thing is making sure that our leaders are appropriately coached. And so we'll provide some of that. But mainly it's a focus on visibility, which we think clearly will help communication as well.

The second thing is focused on those front-line leaders, to your point. And there was a sense among our colleagues and our teammates across the campus that while someone might have been really good technically in their job, it doesn't mean that when they begin supervising an organization, a sub organization in the university, that they're going to be any good at that. And so one of the things we're committing to is that the university is going to develop a fairly robust, certainly first supervisor training course, but then making sure that everybody up and down the chain has regular and routine leadership-development opportunities. And again, you know, it's the challenge that we all have. We say sometimes of ourselves and sometimes of those that we promote to the next level, “Hey, they were really good at level one. They’ll be great at level two.” Well, a lot of times we presume, and we don’t do them any favors nor their teammates any favors, if we don’t provide them the development that they deserve and that their colleagues need them to have.

Al: Well, I love the focus on visibility, because what that does is that improves trust. You need to see people and know people in order to trust them. And when you've got higher levels of trust, then you really begin to see people working together in the same direction. That's fantastic. And then, of course, you've heard and we've said many times people join organizations and they leave managers. And yeah, oftentimes, and managers will be promoted because of their technical skills, not necessarily because they're good with people. So yeah, great steps to take.

Well, this is one of the things I loved, being on campus and seeing how this works, and that is that your mission at Liberty University is to train champions for Christ with the values of knowledge and skills essential for impacting tomorrow's world. And in open-ended comments in the Survey, we did see the focus on training champions for Christ is motivating to your faculty and staff. And actually one of our staff members is one of your faculty, and he says, “Yeah, I'm motivated by this,” your adjunct faculty. So, how do you lead your team so that people can connect their day-to-day responsibilities with the mission and vision of the university? Are there some practical steps that our listeners can implement themselves that you regularly enforce to reinforce the mission?

Dondi: I think the most important element of this is talking about it all the time, and so that's the thing that we try to do as often as possible. It is among the hardest parts of the job, you know, because if a person is a grounds keeper, for instance, and they come to work, and all they ever think is, “Well, I just cut the grass, or I just...” well, we try to relay to them stories of—and this happens all the time—stories of guests, of prospective students, you know, outside guests, others who come, and they just rave about the quality of the facilities, but also the quality of the landscaping. You know, the fact that you walk onto this campus, you do sense the Spirit of God, but you also see that—again, what Dr. Falwell said is true. “If it's Christian, it ought to be better.” But somebody has to tell that grounds worker that what they do makes a difference. And we do that because when we hear from guests who talk about and rave about the quality of the grounds, we let the grounds workers know.

And I do that sometimes publicly in town-hall meetings. In my first town-hall meeting, I commented on and mentioned the names, for instance, of two of our cleaning staff who've been here a long time, and so I mentioned their names. I just said publicly how just in awe I am of how clean the hallway is. You come to any building on this campus, and you'll be blown away, and that doesn't happen by accident. And so later, I was told by several around me that one of the ones whose names I mentioned, she was treated like a rock star for a couple of weeks, you know, because people said, “Oh, the president mentioned your name.”

And so it isn't that anything other than everybody's job on this campus is critical. And unless you acknowledge and reward those people who work in obscurity often and don't have the privilege of standing in front of people and being recognized by a faculty member, that they go into a classroom, or whether they do it online or do it in person, they go into a classroom, and they have students all the time who thank them for what they've done. But what about a back-office accountant or, again, a grounds worker or part of the cleaning staff? You know, those are the ones that really make the university go. And so keeping it in front of people what the mission is and telling stories of their colleagues who have made a difference, you know, I think that's really the only way to do it. And the innovative part has to be finding new and innovative ways to recognize those performers, those colleagues, in ways that will make a difference not just for them, but be motivating for others as well.

Al: Well, Dondi, when you invited me to speak to the faculty and staff, you had asked every one of the grounds workers who had helped shovel the snow the one day that you had snow, you asked them to stand up and they received an ovation for coming and working to do that job. And you connected it so well to the mission and how them doing that enabled the rest of the organization to do what it needed to do. And yeah, that's a perfect example, and again, an example for our listeners of life-giving work, just to connect the mission to what people are doing on the ground. Just a fantastic example. So yeah, talking about it and creating stories and being able to link how what people are doing on the ground to the mission. Great examples.

Dondi: Yeah. I think, too, any leader, you know, especially of an organization of any size, but sometimes I will just randomly think, “What function of the university today have I taken for granted? What function haven't I thought about in a while?” Because, and I’ll try to make a special effort to either to pay a visit or to say something to their leader or send an email, just so they know.

And I think, it's a good exercise in gratitude, if nothing else. You know, I come to the campus every day, and I realize I didn't build any of these buildings. I guess technically I'm building some now, but I'm not doing anything. I'm just watching them be built. And so almost everything that's happened here has happened because somebody else has done it. And from the first day I arrived until the day that I depart, whenever that may be, that will always be true. There’ll be other people doing things that, they'll be doing those things better than I could ever do them. They will know which processes are broken, and if I can have a conversation with them, or if their leader has a conversation with them, they will point out what's broken, and more importantly, they'll point out how to fix it. And so just maintaining those relationships, I think, is crucial to having an organization that is consistently getting better.

Al: Yeah. So for our listeners, what function have you taken for granted lately and talk about it?

I trust you’re enjoying our podcast today. We’ll be right back after an important word for leaders.

Female: Are you a leader searching for ways to enhance your organization's workplace culture and foster employee engagement? Well, we have just the solution for you. It's our proven Best Christian Workplaces Employee Engagement Survey for the Christian-led workplace. Picture this: your organization radiating with a renewed sense of purpose, where employees are excited to come to work every day. With our Employee Engagement Survey, you'll gain powerful insights into the heart of your organization, discover hidden strengths, uncover areas for improvement, and unlock the full potential of your team. But that's not all. By conducting the Survey, you'll see productivity skyrocket, increased job satisfaction, and decreased turnover rates. Imagine the impact on your mission as your team unites around a shared vision driven by purpose and fueled by a positive workplace culture. Your organization will become a beacon of light, inspiring others with its exceptional leadership. Don't wait any longer to create a flourishing workplace. Visit our website at workplaces.org, and ask for the Employee Engagement Survey Sample Report today. Take the first step towards transforming your organization into a thriving, purpose-driven powerhouse. Together, let's build a workplace culture that honors God and empowers your team to flourish.

Al: Welcome back to my conversation with Dr. Dondi Costin.

Universities are well known for experiencing factions between faculty, administrators, support staff. I'm sure you've heard that.

Dondi: Yeah. Heard and lived it. Yes, exactly. Yeah.

Al: Well, you know, you bring 30 years of military experience, retiring as a major general in the Air Force, before coming to Liberty. And in your military career, were there any specific or similar patterns that prepared you for bridging these divides on a college campus? Are there some lessons that you've learned in past experiences that have helped you to, and maybe even prepared you, to lead a large organization like this with potential divides?

Dondi: Yeah. I think what you see in a university is mirrored almost identically in a military setting. And so I came from the Air Force. And so sometimes when I describe higher education to those who are in the military, I would say, “Listen, it sounds different, but it isn't.” If you were to overlay an organizational chart for a military unit, an Air Force wing, the largest kind of Air Force unit, fighting unit that we have, an Army brigade would be an equivalent, if you were to take that organizational chart and overlay it on a university, you would find identical organizational structures.

Now, the names might be slightly different. When I got to my first institution just out of the Air Force, I'd figured this out, I guess. And so when people would begin talking to me using higher-ed language, I would say, “Now tell me again in English words what you do, actually do.” And they would tell me what they did. And in my mind I'd say, “Oh, okay, that's an x, y, z in the Air Force.” Then I'd be, “Okay, now I understand.” But really, it's identical. And so I sometimes half-jokingly say that the faculty are kind of like the fighter pilots, you know, in the Air Force. The faculty are the fighter pilots. You can't have an Air Force without fighter pilots; you can’t have a university without faculty. And the same for students.

So, what I discovered the best preparation that I had to be a university president was being a chaplain in the Air Force, because a chaplain in the Air Force isn't in a stovepipe if they're doing their job well. A chaplain in the Air Force, the job is to be visible and find your way into every single subordinate unit for the sole purpose of listening to what the challenges are so you can advise commanders up and down the chain of command how to make things better. And so it probably would have been different if I'd come from a particular stovepipe, but chaplaincy prepared me very well to realize that we have to build bridges among the silos, and that's hard. It's easier said than done, quite frankly, as you know. But having a sense of, you know, my job is to be a roamer. I should roam around. I should manage by walking around. I should listen well. I should not be stuck in my office all the time. You know, I jokingly say, for those who’re stuck in your office sometimes, and I have these days, and so do you, is that there are days when all I get to do is send emails for Jesus. And that's good, they have to be sent, but it's not nearly as important as the other stuff. And that, I think, is true. So it's a focus on mission and the ability to see that the dots have to be connected, and they can be connected with leadership and communication.

Al: That's a great background and a great description. I like that. Yeah. Building bridges. And you have to be out there and understand what the issues are in order to be able to listen and advise, yeah.

So, you've recently completed an adjunct-faculty survey, and I know the results are just fresh, and I'm not sure if you've had much time even to process them yet. But life-giving work came up over and over again as a top area for adjunct faculty, and it's encouraging to see that this missional motivation is really a key. It's, so, you know, for your adjunct faculty, it's not just a job; it's not just a paycheck; it is motivational. So they have an influence, clearly, on the overall quality of the education that you offer your students, along with the regular faculty. Are there particular challenges or ways that you see how to engage adjuncts? In many of our organizations, this would be other, like, part-time employees. But what are the challenges you see to engage adjuncts in your large institution?

Dondi: Yeah. I was pleasantly surprised to see that among our adjuncts, as it was explained to me, you know, because there had never been a survey of adjuncts, at least with your organization, we had to work together to find a way to do it. And now we could not survive. No university today could exist and survive without adjuncts. And so, first of all, there's a sense of appreciation for what they do. Frankly, I wasn't surprised that adjuncts had among the highest sense of life-giving work, because think about what an adjunct does. A typical adjunct is someone who is a believer, at least in our institution. They're a Christian. They are doing some other job. You know, they're not faculty full time or they wouldn't be adjunct, in most cases. And they decide that they want to give back and use their skill set, you know, their experiences to students. And so the sense that that set of adjuncts experience life-giving work is no surprise at all to me. And to some extent, you know, they're able to instead of coaching a baseball team or something, they're like, “Hey, we're going to influence students,” and so that's their service to God, to God now, to God and country in that way. And so to some extent, they have an advantage because they don't get so much stuck in the mire of university politics and, you know, all those kinds of things.

On the other hand, it's one of the hardest groups to stay in contact with because, again, they're not here. They generally are other places. They are greatly devoted to their students, but they also have lives, you know, they have jobs and families and other things that are their full-time jobs. And so having them feel like they are completely connected. I think most universities would say, and most adjuncts would say, “Yeah, life-giving work is high. But, you know, I'm not getting rich by being an adjunct professor.” And so, but for most of them, it's not the case. It is harder if you have adjuncts who are, their sole job is trying to get enough classes, sometimes it’s at multiple schools, you know, get enough classes together to make a living. So, it's good on one hand, life-giving work; it's sometimes difficult in terms of compensation, but every college has the same challenge. And so as we talk about rewarding compensation in our strategic plan, that'll be something clearly that we'll be looking into as well.

Al: That's great feedback, and I'm glad you're listening and focusing on adjunct, especially that's such a big part of your work. But that's just an example, Dondi. And as I've observed you, you know, watching you on video as well as seeing you in person as you interact with your faculty and staff, I'll say, I think you're a remarkable leader. And in the course of the conversation, we haven't really had a chance to delve into your formation as a leader. And I think our listeners would be very interested in, you know, what are some of the experiences and growth opportunities that you've been through to kind of get to your current sphere of influence as a leader? And as I talk with leaders who are committed to growing in their leadership and to shepherding the flock well, I'm interested in learning how they've gone through their season of leadership. So share some of the few reflections that you might have that has influenced your own growth as a leader. And what are some of the catalysts, perhaps along the way, that have helped to equip you to spur you on to growth as a leader, Dondi?

Dondi: I was thrust into leadership positions in high school, and they were positions I didn't want. I was afraid. I didn't have a lot of confidence. And so I think the first thing is, I think back to all those coaches and teachers, pastors and others who said to me in so many words, “Hey, you know, God's got this. I know you're scared. I know you're afraid. I know you don't have a lot of confidence. You feel like you're going to embarrass yourself,” and all of that. But they said, sometimes in words, but always in actions, that this is part of the process.

So I think the first thing is recognizing that, you know, the old question, are leaders born, or are they made? Well, the answer is yes. They're born, every leader is born. And so the fact that they can be made, that development happens, and God uses education and experiences and mentors and coaches and teachers and others to make that happen. And so that's the first thing.

The second thing is that I went to the Air Force Academy just because I didn't know what I was going to do. So God opened the door. And I think being immersed in an undergraduate education that they taught you from the very beginning that the purpose of the institution is to build leaders of character for America. And so it took a while to catch on. It took a while for me to find my niche. But having sort of been baptized in that crucible from the very beginning was a big help.

The other thing that comes to my mind is I had an eighth-grade teacher named Mrs. Newsome. And Mrs. Newsome, I don't recommend her teaching style, but it worked for me. What Mrs. Newsome would do is at the end of every graded event in the eighth grade, she was social studies and English, at the end of every graded event, she would have everybody collect their things from their desk, stand against the wall. She would have a stack of papers in front of her, and she would re-seat the class from highest grade to lowest grade. And she did it every single time. And so she would say to me in so many words, because I was comfortable in the middle, I was comfortable there. And she would say to me, “You know, if you just worked a little harder, if you studied a little bit longer, if you focused on the task, you could sit toward the front of the class.” And I wasn't interested, really, in sitting in front of the class. But I said, “Okay, I'm going to give this a go.” And so what I found is that if I followed her advice, that the closer and closer I got to the front of the class, and that's exactly what happened.

So, I think about Mrs. Newsome. She's long with the Lord now, but I think about her often. And again, I don't recommend her style, but I do say that for me, her style worked because I needed somebody to challenge me and to let me see that I wasn't living up to my potential. And I think when it comes to leadership development, that's a key factor.

I also realized in the Air Force, as soon as I began to supervise people, I realized that I did not have the skill set I needed and that all the good ideas I thought I had when I was the second in charge, that if I ever became the leader that I was going to fix things; it was going to be easy. I discovered it isn’t. So, you know, I did a lot of reading, I got a couple of graduate degrees in leadership because I knew I needed the help, and I could practice it every day. And so the old saying I think it's true, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. And so I had to get myself to a point where I realized, just to myself, I said, “If you don't get your act in gear, if you don't read more, if you don't study more, if you don't put yourself out there, if you don't take risks, if you don't do hard things and take care of people along the way, then you're never going to be the kind of person God wants you to be.”

And one of the first leadership lessons I ever learned in the Air Force was the one that I think about often, that it's this: if you take care of the people, the people will take care of the mission. And so some people are too mission focused; they forget about the people. Some people are too people focused; they forget about the mission. And so there's this balancing act that you have to do. But if you take care of the people, they'll take care of the mission, I think is abundantly true.

Al: What a great background. And I'll have to say, having grown up in the marketplace, I never really heard—well, I began to understand as I talked with other military leaders how character was part of the development in the military, and in the workplaces, character isn't described as much. So that's one differentiation I noticed right away. But yeah, I love the “when the student is ready, the teacher will appear.” And Dondi, you mentioned you were taking online courses. You were full time, going through the ranks of the Air Force, and you were taking online courses to improve your education.

Dondi: Yeah. I took online courses. I read books. I read articles. I tried to take in-residence courses when I could. I’d go to seminars. All kinds of things because, again, I knew I wasn't the leader that those who were cursed with me as their leader deserved. And so that was always my perspective. And so the same is still true. I try to get better and better every day.

Al: Well, Dondi, this has been a great conversation. Thanks so much for your time.

Just thinking back, I love the way you focused on listening as you started a new role. You listened to people as you even invited them to answer questions before you started, and then you continued to listen and begin to act on what you heard. And one of the things you heard was that the culture needed to be boosted a bit, and you began working on that right away. You've created A for authentic Christian culture at Liberty University. That's one of the themes that you're going to be focusing on, as well as the part of inspirational leadership and healthy communication. And one of the ways that you really plan to connect with your constituents is to be visible and to do that with your wife, Vicki. And we've met Vicki, and she's just a delightful person and a great person, great wife to have at your side. Or maybe you're at her side.

Dondi: Yeah. Yeah.

Al: You know, the, yeah, the three functions of a leader. The way you're doing leadership development and clearly focusing on the development of front-line supervisors, how to reinforce the mission throughout a large organization and how you've grown as a leader. This has just been a great conversation.

Let me ask you, Dondi, is there anything you'd like to add to what we've talked about?

Dondi: Al, I would just reiterate what I said at the beginning. Thank you for focusing on this, making sure that your life's work is also your passion, because I think you're making a huge difference all around the country. And again, your book has been a game changer for me personally as well as, you know, those teams I’ve had the opportunity to lock arms with and move forward. So I recommend, for anybody, frankly, I've recommended your book thousands of times, I guess, now. That it is the best book, from my perspective, on the topic; certainly one that puts the cookies on the lowest shelf but does so in a practical way, you know. And so that's the thing about your book that is so compelling and so helpful, and I appreciate you doing that. Thanks for what your organization is doing to help ours. And I look forward to seeing how the Lord uses both of ours to advance His Kingdom.

Al: Well, Dondi, thanks so much for your contribution today. And most of all, I appreciate your commitment to excellence and integrity in Christian higher education, to train champions for Christ and to invest in the next generation. So, thanks for taking your time out today and speaking to the lives of so many listeners.

Dondi: God bless you, Al. Thanks a bunch.

Al: Thanks so much for listening to my conversation with Dr. Dondi Costin. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did.

You can find ways to connect with him and links to everything we discussed in our show notes and transcript at workplaces.org/podcast.

And if you have any suggestions for me about our podcast or have any questions on flourishing workplace cultures, please email me, al@workplaces.org.

And leaders, if you want to improve your leadership, expand your organization's impact for good, and see further faithfulness in our broader culture, help us achieve our goal to see more flourishing Christian-led workplaces. To help, please share this podcast with another leader or launch a project in your organization to discover and improve the health of your workplace culture. If you're interested in learning more, go to workplaces.org and request a sample report.

Outro: The Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast is sponsored by Best Christian Workplaces. If you need support building a flourishing workplace culture, please visit workplaces.org for more information.

We'll see you again next week for more valuable content to help you develop strong leaders and build a flourishing workplace culture.

Al: Join us next week as we talk with Ezra Benjamin of Jewish Voice Ministries.