Transcript: The Importance of Religious Freedom and Free Speech in the Workplace // Bob Pruitt, Alliance Defending Freedom

Intro: What are your religious rights as an organization? These are particularly treacherous times for Christian-owned and -led organizations, so listen in to today's show as our guest highlights key action steps to protect your religious freedoms.

Welcome: Welcome to the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast, your home for open, honest, and insightful conversations to help you develop strong leaders and build a flourishing workplace culture.

Al Lopus: As a Christian leader, you want to honor God in your work. You're intentional about creating a flourishing workplace and investing in your staff, and at the same time, you operate within a specific governmental and legal environment. What legal issues do you need to be aware of as we lead a Christian organization? Or if you're a Christian leader in a marketplace organization, how do you affirm biblical values and government workplace rules? Well, today's Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast will focus on how we practice our Christian faith in the workplace and what sort of legal obligations and protections we have.

And I'm delighted to welcome Bob Pruitt. Bob's the senior counsel and director of corporate affairs at the Alliance Defending Freedom. And I've had a chance to get to know Bob a bit through our mutual affiliation with C12.

Bob, it's great to have you on the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast.

Bob Pruitt: Well, thank you, Al. It's an honor and a blessing to be part of your podcast. I heartily believe that having a basic legal understanding of your rights is a great step toward having a flourishing and engaging workplace.

Al: Well, I look forward to having that kind of a conversation, Bob, because, you know, Alliance Defending Freedom is a legal organization committed to protecting religious freedom, free speech, the sanctity of life, marriage and family, and parental rights. And those are all very dear to us. And we're going to dive into some of the specific questions about how we live out our faith in the workplace.

But first, give us an idea of some of the trends that you're seeing in your work at Alliance Defending Freedom. What's the landscape like for employers and employees in the area of religious freedom?

Bob: Absolutely. Thank you, Al.

So these indeed are interesting times. It reminds me of Isaiah 5:20, “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness.” The trends that we're seeing come primarily through our current administration. Shortly after he took office, President Biden issued an executive order that instructed his administration to reinterpret sex in federal laws—and historically, the definition of sex has just been the binary question of male and female—but to reinterpret sex in the federal laws to mean sexual orientation, who your sexual partner is, and gender identity, what gender do you identify with?

So, for example, this new interpretation affects the Affordable Care Act. May recall that was passed during the Obama administration. Section 1557 of that law bans sex discrimination, but the regulation would expand that to create a scenario in which doctors and other health-care professionals could be forced to act against their medical judgment, their religious beliefs, and conscious in performing controversial and often medically dangerous abortions or gender-transition interventions on their patients, including children.

Another impact would be felt in the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, EEOC, and its interpretation of sexual discrimination. If, for example, a male employee, by merely self-identifying as a female, could demand in your workplace to have unfettered legal access to women's restrooms, changing facilities, and showers there at work.

A further trend we're seeing is that employers may have to grapple with issues based upon the different states that now may restrict or not allow abortion based upon the U.S. Supreme Court opinion that we had recently in Dobbs, versus those states, like let's say California and New York, that basically have abortion on demand. For example, can an employer which provides medical benefits to an employee who she chooses to keep her baby and place it up for adoption also be forced to pay for travel expenses in the abortion procedure itself if another employee chooses to travel to a state, let's say like California, to have an abortion?

So these are some of the important trends we're seeing.

Al: Yeah. Very critical issues. I have a friend who's an anesthesiologist, and he found himself in the operating room as they were doing a gender change, part of a gender-change operation. And he realized that's what was happening, you know, halfway through the surgery, and said, you know, he doesn't want to—he's already said he doesn't want to be involved in any of those going forward.

And yeah, issues that we all face in one way or another. But yeah, this is really important work. There's no question about it.

So, you know, some of the terms that we use, such as religious freedom and freedom of speech, have some very specific meanings. And before we go much deeper in the discussion, it would be helpful for us to have some common definitions for these terms. So give us some help, Bob. What do you mean by religious freedom and freedom of speech?

Bob: Sure. Thanks, Al.

Let's first talk about religious freedom. So religious freedom is not merely the freedom to believe what you want. It's the freedom to live out those beliefs and not just within the walls of your home or your church, but everywhere.

For example, I was talking with Rob Carr. He’s our director of operations for the United Kingdom. And let’s go back 20 years ago, and the United Kingdom was dealing with social issues like religious liberty for their citizens. And I asked him recently, “What's the current status of religious freedom for the citizens in UK now?” And he said, “While its citizens have religious freedom, they have it as long as it stays in the confines of their home or their church. And it's basically not allowed in the streets, marketplace, or the workplace.”

And unfortunately, here in America, there's a movement that thinks our beliefs are outdated, they're wrong, they must be stamped out or canceled. Groups like the American Civil Liberties Union, the Human Rights Campaign, and Southern Poverty Law Center want to strip away your religious freedoms. They seek to cancel your God-given right to freely live out your faith, what you believe, what you say, what you will and what you won't do.

That's why Alliance Defending Freedom defends religious freedom for all. We oppose efforts to punish people for peacefully living out their beliefs. Government should not be able to force people to violate their beliefs or retreat from a social life at the price of following their faith. If necessary, we will go all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court to defend our clients. And these include small-business owners being forced to violate their faith; churches and people of faith being treated by the government as second-class citizens. We saw this during the COVID pandemic, when governments were closing down churches but allowing casinos and liquor stores to remain open. We also see this in the academic sector, where professors, teachers, and students are compelled to express or endorse messages they don't agree with. And then as we were talking about and as your anesthesiologist friend, doctors and nurses being coerced into performing procedures that violate their deeply held beliefs.

So let's move on to free speech. That's a term that gets thrown out quite often these days. But what is it, and why is it important? So the freedom of speech is simply the ability to say, write, or otherwise express what you truly believe without fear of punishment or retaliation from the government. The freedom is protected by the First Amendment of our U.S. Constitution, which states Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech. The authors of our Constitution believed it is extremely important to protect this freedom, and for good reason. Speaking is how we express our thoughts. So if government officials can force us to say things we don't believe, you no longer control the content of our speech, and thus, we lose the freedom to live consistently with the principles that we treasure most. Government officials who seek to control your speech or try to control what you think and what you can do. And that's highly contrary. That's just the opposite of the very idea of freedom.

So not only that, but it's contrary to the dignity of our human persons. We have been created by the Lord or as stated in Psalm 139, “He knitted us together in our mother's wombs,” and thus, we have dignity, and we all have value.

While upholding human dignity is the most important reason to protect this freedom, it certainly isn't the only one. Another reason is that if you want good, influential ideas, you will support protections for the freedom of speech. Some of our best ideas have often come from robust discussion, debate, and many different ideas, and this simply cannot exist without free speech. So there is an American axiom that says, “I may disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

Al: Yeah. Boy, that's great discussion. And again, religious freedom of speech, just to be clear on what that is, really helpful. Thanks.

You know, our leaders include leaders in Christian nonprofits and churches, as well as business leaders in the marketplace. And, you know, these are two different kinds of organizations that certainly have different rules and protections. You know, for example, marketplace companies have to follow the EEOC, for example. And I realize we're having a conversation about general principles, and you're not giving any specific legal advice in this podcast. So I guess we need to say that right up front.

But let's start with Christian nonprofits and churches. Let's talk about organizations that have a specifically religious purpose in their organization, either as a church or 501(c)(3), and when it comes to employment law and hiring staff, so what kind of guidelines does an organization need to have in place? I know this is even a growing and certainly a critical issue. They want to hire employees who affirm the religious values of the organization. So what requirements can they legally place on their employees? And I know this is something that you're defending very hard.

Bob: Exactly, exactly. Well, thank you, Al. Excellent question.

So for any organization, its mission statement is core to its identity. And to advance that mission, it needs people who agree with those values and will carry them out. So this is true and probably most so for churches and religious institutions. So if religious beliefs are at the center of an organization, then it’s addressing some of life's most important and fundamental questions. And if its mission includes teaching and spreading those beliefs, then it's critical for that organization, rather than the government, to decide who performs and how they perform these vital functions. This is why our courts have recognized the principle of called ministerial exception.

So the ministerial exception allows religious organizations to make employment decisions for ministers without government interference. The Supreme Court has long recognized that the First Amendment protects the right of churches to decide for themselves, free from state interference, matters of church government, as well as those of faith and doctrine.

As an example, in 2012, the Supreme Court handed down its unanimous decision in the Hosanna-Tabor case, and it upheld the principle of ministerial exception, recognizing that both the free exercise and establishment clauses of the First Amendment bar the government from interfering with the decision of a religious group to fire one of its ministers. If the government were to involve itself in the internal governance of a church, it would deprive the church of control over the selection of those who will personify its beliefs.

Another case came out in 2020 called Our Lady of Guadalupe, and in that case, the Supreme Court ruled that the ministerial exception also applies to teachers at a religious school. So the courts, in ruling whether or not this ministerial exception applies, what they do is they base their decision on the tasks, responsibilities, and duties of that employee to teach the organization's faith or to fulfill its mission.

Al: Yeah. So, Bob, in Christian organizations, the 501(c)(3) Christian organizations, they need to have many things in place, don't they? They need to probably have a statement of faith. Would you recommend a statement of faith, and then having employees, then, sign off on that statement of faith?

Bob: I would. And so we have, and we'll get toward the resources. And one of our resources, the Faith and Workplace Guide. And in the back of it, in appendix one, has examples that a religious organization or a for-profit organization can use to have in their statement of faith, because that’s an important piece of protecting your rights for religious freedom is to have that. And I'll give an example here in a bit.

Al: Super. Well, let's shift our discussion, then, to leaders of Christian-owned businesses. I mean, this is a very sensitive topic. There are marketplace companies owned and led by Christians, that we both know several, and they're operating under the general laws of their state, their local, and national governments. And if a leader in a Christian-owned business wants to live out biblical values in the marketplace, you know, what do they need to be aware of? Give me some ideas. How can they have a positive influence on employees and customers while still operating within the legal frameworks that we have in the United States specifically? For example, you know, can they include prayer in the workplace? What limits and boundaries do they need to be aware of? I was just recently in an organization and a Christian-owned business, and we started our meeting off with prayer. And, you know, of course, coming from the more liberal state of Washington, I was a little bit surprised that the leader, the president of the company did that. But, you know, help us understand, what frameworks do we need to follow?

Bob: Sure. So, first and foremost, a business leader definitely has the right to live out his or her biblical values in the workplace. So you can have prayer meetings, Bible studies, conduct chapel services, even serve communion in the workplace. But there's definitely some guidelines that you need to follow.

So the first one, and most importantly, is these activities all need to be voluntary. So accordingly, I'd recommend that the employer do the following: one, provide a written notice of that activity. So what I would recommend in most businesses, business emails, or emails through the server there at work are used and sent out to everybody saying, “We've got a Bible study. It's this Tuesday. It's going to be before work.” And that's the way I would handle that.

And then, you'd also want to, for maybe some folks that work out in the warehouse or other areas, maybe they don't have access to emails, but post where you would post other similar notices that are required, you can post that as well. In this invite, I would highlight that the activity is voluntary, and the employee's participation or lack of participation or not even showing up at all will in no way impact or affect their performance reviews or any other employment benefit.

And then, finally, I recommend that the activity is off hours. So as I was giving you my example before work, but this could be before work, after work, or during a break. And this accomplishes two points. One, it emphasizes the voluntary nature of the activity. And two, it keeps animosity down in the company.

I'll give you an example. So let's say you had a sales team, an inside sales team, and you had Martha and Sally and Dave, and Sally and Dave are going to go to this Bible study. And let's say that this employer did not listen to this podcast, and they had this Bible study at ten in the morning and not during a break time. And you can imagine Martha complaining, “What do you mean I have to cover the phones for Sally and Dave while they attend a Bible study?” So it's just not a good practice to do, based upon that.

And then, as we're talking about before, is that you recommend having that statement of faith somewhere in your corporate documents. So that could be in your bylaws, your articles of incorporation. If you have an employee manual, I'd also recommend that you would state something along the lines of, we're going to have these activities—prayer meetings, Bible studies, whatever it may be—and emphasize the voluntary nature of those activities and the complete lack of impact on performance or benefits if you participate or if you don't participate.

I'll give you an example of the courts looking at a company's statement of faith and how it helped them. So a couple of years ago, under the Affordable Care Act, it required employers to have abortifacients in its health-care plans. And so Hobby Lobby, wonderfully run organization by the Green family, that went directly against their sincerely held beliefs of sanctity of life. And so they contested this all the way to the Supreme Court. And the Supreme Court, because it can test the sincerity of Hobby Lobby and the Green family's beliefs, they can test that, were looking for examples of their faith in their corporate documents. And they actually did find those, and they even cited those examples in this opinion.

So in summary, if you want to have religious activities in your workplace, make sure they're voluntary, and have a statement of faith in your corporate documents.

Al: I trust you’re enjoying our podcast today. We’ll be right back after an important word for leaders.

Are you tired of spinning your wheels with unwanted turnover, toxicity, and disengaged employees? Do you want to improve your team's effectiveness and performance? A helpful way to improve is to have you and your leadership team buy our new book, Road to Flourishing: Eight Keys to Boost Employee Engagement and Well-Being. This is the only research-based book that shows you how to engage employees, build fantastic teams, cultivate life-giving work, attract and retain outstanding talent, and much more. To buy a copy for you and your team, go to www.roadtoflourishing.com. And when you buy a book, you'll receive a free copy of our Rewarding Compensation: FLOURISH Guide. Again, go to roadtoflourishing.com and buy a book for you and your team, and receive a free Rewarding Compensation: FLOURISH Guide.

And now back to today's special guest.

Wow, that's very helpful, Bob. I mean, you know, again, the EEOC says we can't discriminate based on religion; we can't discriminate hiring or promotion or termination based on religious beliefs. I really like your thoughts here. And it's, yeah, to have a notice, whether email or a posting, have it out there, where it's voluntary; it's off hours. That's great advice. So at lunchtime maybe or before or after work. And, you know, I hadn't really thought much, quite frankly, about having statements of faith in corporate documents for a for-profit organization. But absolutely. And yeah, that's the key. And this organization I was referring to, starting in prayer or having prayer before meals, having the employees know and being in, perhaps, the employee manual, that, again, belief isn't a basis for discrimination on hiring. Am I summarizing that well?

Bob: Yes, you are. Very good, Al.

So you know, for example, the praying before the meeting, as you experienced, or you know, maybe before a company meal. We're in Thanksgiving time, so many will have kind of Thanksgiving lunches for its employees, and maybe someone comes up and says, “Yes, we'd like to pray before a meal.” And we'll talk a little more detail about this, but I would just recommend that if someone says, “I know we're going to start this meeting by prayer, or I know we're going to maybe start the meeting to have lunch by prayer, I’d rather not participate,” I would certainly encourage the employer to, if at all possible, allow that employee to come in a little bit later and not participate in the prayer. Even though it might be brief, I just think that you're setting the right example, if ever called on the carpet about it.

Al: Okay. That's very helpful. Thanks.

Well, you know, we've been talking about the employer side of the law. Let's shift for a minute to the employee rights. And sometimes employees might be unsure of what they feel they can freely say or do in the workplace. And I know and I've read many employee comments about how people really appreciate working in a Christian environment because they can pray together, and there's a lack of cuss words. But can they request a day off for religious reasons, for example? Can they invite a coworker to a Bible study? Can they share about the hope of Jesus with their coworkers? You know, so what rights do employees have in freely exercising their religion or their faith in a secular work environment?

Bob: Sure. So just like employers, employees to have rights in the workplace, and so let's go briefly over the questions that you asked. Can they request a day off for religious reasons? Yes. Can they invite a coworker to a Bible study? Yes. Can they share about the hope for Jesus with their coworkers? Yes.

But let me make it clear, these are all qualified yeses. So the employees shouldn't be allowed to proselytize to other employees. Or likewise, their actions can't be so pervasive or extreme as to possibly constitute workplace harassment.

So, for example, if you have this person that they're saying, “Hey, come join us for a Bible study,” or “Let me share my faith with you and what Jesus has done in my life,” and that employee says, “Hey, I thank you, but can you stop? I'm just not there. I don't believe it,” whatever they may say, but they just say stop, that employee needs to stop or those employees need to stop. If it doesn't, it can be grounds for a workplace-harassment claim.

And then something else we were talking about a little bit before is religious accommodations. And so, like, we're talking about the example of not participating in a prayer. So employers are required to make reasonable religious accommodations for its employees unless that request would cause undue hardship to the company. And that's on the company to be able to show and prove that.

So let's back up a little bit. So Title VII is the employment section of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. And as an important side note, Title VII applies to most all organizations, even religious organizations, that have 15 or more employees. So you may recall that the Civil Rights Act protects certain classes of people—race, color, national origin, sex, and religion. To prove a claim for discrimination for the failure of an employer to accommodate a request, the employee must show these three things: one, the observance or practice conflicts with an employment requirement; two, the employee calls the religious observation or practice to the employer's attention; and three, the religious observance or practice was the basis for the employee's discharge or other discriminatory treatment. So my recommendation is that if at all possible and in all reasonableness, being very liberal with your reasonableness, I recommend that you allow these requests, if at all possible, and again, if it doesn't cause undue hardship to your business.

I'll give you an example. So if a Muslim employee wants to go in his office, lay out his prayer mat, pray to Allah at a break time, I'd recommend you allow that, again, unless you can show that allowing such would place an undue hardship on your business.

Al: Yeah. As you were going through those, I was thinking that exact thing as I've seen now with Muslim practitioners, even in public places, take time to observe a prayer at times and how the employers are allowing that to happen.

You know, so, Bob, certainly the Supreme Court is back in session. And is there a particular case that's likely to impact Christians in the workplace?

Bob: Yeah, there sure is, Al. The case is called 303 Creative v. Elenis. And let me give you, maybe before we get into the facts of that case, a scenario.

So, Al, if I told you that the government would start demanding your organization, which does a fantastic job of rating Christian organizations and assisting them to have a flourishing and engaging workplace, that you had to start serving atheist or Muslim organizations, what would your response be?

Al: It's a free country. I wouldn't have—I don't feel like I'd have to.

Bob: Right, right. I'll give you another example. Or if the government told a conservative speechwriter that he had to begin writing speeches for President Biden, people would start checking their passports to make sure they haven't unknowingly traveled to Cuba. I'd say, “This is America. We have certain freedoms and can't be forced to do things by our government that goes against our sincerely held beliefs.”

But interestingly enough, this is what's the heart behind the 303 Creative case. So the U.S. Supreme Court has agreed to review the case, and Kristen Waggoner, our present CEO and general counsel, will be arguing the case on behalf of Lorie Smith and her business, 303 Creative. So Lorie is a graphic artist who runs her own design studio. She loves to visually convey messages of every site she creates. Lorie desires to use her skills to promote causes consistent with those beliefs, such as supporting children with disabilities, overseas missions, animal shelters, and veterans. She was excited to expand her portfolio, to create websites that celebrate marriages between a man and a woman. But Colorado made it clear that she was not welcome in that space. The state of Colorado says that if you create a website for heterosexual couples, you must also create websites for same-sex marriages. So Lorie serves everyone, but like most artists, can't promote every message. Lorie's decisions about which projects to design are based upon what the message she's been asked to express, not the person who's requesting it.

So free speech is for everyone. The government can't force Americans to say something they don't believe. The First Amendment protects the right of every American to express ideas, without fear of government punishment, even if the government disagrees with those ideas. So we hope that the Supreme Court will uphold free speech for not just Lorie but for all Americans because without this freedom, America will cease to be a vibrant and free democracy that rejects government coercion and promotes human flourishing. The oral arguments for this case are set for December 5.

Al: Hm, wow. And I know—so this is, you know, more follow ups from the cake scenario in Colorado, as well as a similar situation up here in Washington, as I recall.

Bob: That’s correct. That’s correct. So that was Jack Phillips in the Masterpiece Cakeshop case, and he was successful at the Supreme Court. And then you're referring to Barronelle Stutzman of Arlene’s Flowers. And so, yes, those are the cases that impacted by this upcoming Supreme Court case.

Al: And the case in Colorado, that was more on a technicality that that was determined. So now we’re going to get right down to the core issue here. Is that your hope?

Bob: That is exactly our hope. So in the Masterpiece Cakeshop case, as you pointed out, in these cases, if the government is shown to be a bad actor—and in this case it was the members of this Colorado Commission for Human Rights were calling Jack a Nazi and some really unfortunate terms—and because that they found that the state overreached, and in these kind of cases, once you find that the state overreached or was a bad actor, then the case is typically thrown out. And it was with Jack in that case.

Al: And we're hoping that the 303 Creative case is really going to kind of get at the core of this clear religious-freedom issue, right? Is that…? Yeah.

Bob: Exactly, exactly. And these are often put in the spirit of the LGBTQ community against Christians. But let's take the Muslim example again. So, you know, for this bakery, so let's say you had a Muslim that had a bakery shop, and a Jewish couple came in, and they said that they wanted to have a bar mitzvah celebration for their son. Well, you can imagine that the Muslim would say, “Sorry, I can't help you.” But, you know, that probably would not get any further than that. But because we have these outstanding issues in our society, these get blown up, and that's why we have to fight for these.

Al: Well, we certainly are living in very contentious times, aren't we?

And so at Alliance Defending Freedom, you're litigating cases, and so naturally you're involved in settling disputes as well. But I'm wondering if we can step back and consider a positive model for engagement and culture and community. And that's kind of what we're really talking about more broadly. So in your work, are there some shining lights that we can see? Are there some positive examples? Is there an example of a company that is engaged with its community and has won over their opposition in a winsome way? I mean, we want to be lights in the world. So maybe those aren't the cases that get to your organization, but what are your thoughts on how we can work together even with those that we disagree with in a way that honors people? I think of Paul's instructions in Romans 12:18, “If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.” So is there a way that we can advocate for our rights as Christian citizens while still showing love and care for those that we disagree with?

Bob: Yeah. And very good, Al. Super point.

So as you stated at the beginning of this podcast, ADF advocates for religious freedom of speech, sanctity of life, marriage, family, and parental rights. So by the very nature of what we do, it's going to create some friction. However, with that said, Jesus was clear. He has called us to love everyone. So as an example, we often go to battle with the American Civil Liberties Union, or ACLU. And several years ago, ACLU's top litigator commented that when she has a case with us, she could always count us to be well prepared and make intelligent moves, but she also stated that we were extremely professional and winsome and had the highest level of integrity.

And that sums up what we want to be. We want to be zealous advocates for our clients and show well that we are beacons of light for our Savior. Our signature verse at ADF is John 15:5, “I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I and him, he bears much fruit; for apart from me you can do nothing.” And we want to share that love and be thoughtful and be caring in all of our interactions because I don't think it helps the cause, whether we're doing work for ADF or we're doing business Christian workplaces, it doesn't help the cause to judge, to demean, and to not to respect, because when all is said and done, the Lord doesn't love us any more than He loves some person that's dealing with gender dysphoria or, you know, homosexuality or some of these other things. He loves everyone, and we need to be those beacons for people. And we can disagree, but we need to disagree respectfully.

Al: Amen, Bob. I'm all about that. Yeah. Thanks so much.

Well, gosh, we've learned so much from our conversation. You know, just going back to what the issues are that we're facing, you know, even some definitions about religious freedom and free speech, and your really specific recommendations on how we can exhibit freedom of speech in the workplace, and particularly to invite others to participate in prayer and Bible study and those kinds of things by being voluntary, having those off hours, having those written in notices. Again, a notice to our Christian-owned workplaces to have statements of faith in their bylaws and their employee manuals. And how, gosh, you're really supporting, and I appreciate it, and I know that ADF lives on contributions. So this is so important for Christian ministries as well as Christian-led businesses to support the work that you're doing. So thanks so much.

Is there anything that you'd like to add that we've talked about?

Bob: Yes. Thank you, Al. And it's been a pleasure to be on your podcast, so we appreciate the opportunity.

One of the things I'd like to do is encourage everyone who is joining us to be engaged and get involved. I’ll share a story. So before I came to ADF approximately four years ago, I helped run a company for 16 years, and the Lord truly blessed us with revenue opportunities and growth. We earned national awards for being a fastest-growing company. We were perennially a best place to work, both regionally and nationally. But as I look back at the greatest accomplishments during my time there, it was having opportunities to share the gospel at work and for the Holy Spirit to use those opportunities to allow a good number of people to accept Christ as their Savior.

And I would, in addition to that, I would encourage everyone to get involved in our elections, because the axiom of “every vote counts” is true. As a matter of fact, there was a congressional race in New Hampshire just this month, and the candidate, on a vote recount, won the election by—that's right—one vote. So every vote does count. We do need to get involved.

And then, too, as we saw with the COVID restrictions and laws, and I was mentioning about governments closing churches but leaving casinos open, local elections and national elections make a difference. And we can't afford to be complacent, because if we don't stand up for our rights, we will most definitely lose them.

Al: That’s great advice, and I fully agree. Yeah, let's get involved. Let's be sure we're voting, no question about it.

Well, Bob, thanks so much for your contributions. This has just been a great discussion. And most of all, I appreciate your commitment to providing the religious freedom that we enjoy in this country. And thank you for taking time out of your day and speaking into the lives of so many listeners. Thanks so much for taking your time out. Thanks, Bob.

Bob: Thank you. It's been my pleasure, Al. We're ready, willing, and able to provide you and your constituents with free resources, materials, and guides to assist you with running your organization or business. I showed you the Faith and Workplace Guide before. If you go to our web site, adflegal.org, you can find other resources. Or you can even reach out personally to me, because we do have quarterly newsletters and bi-monthly webinars, at bpruitt@adflegal.org.

Al: Thanks, Bob.

Bob: Thank you, Al. It’s been a pleasure.

Outro: The Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast is sponsored by Best Christian Workplaces. If you need support building a flourishing workplace culture, please visit workplaces.org for more information.

We'll see you again next week for more valuable content to help you develop strong leaders and build a flourishing workplace culture.