Transcript: Adapting to the Artificial Intelligence Era: Strategies for Christian-Led Workplaces // Jon Hirst, SIL

Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast

“Adapting to the Artificial Intelligence Era: Strategies for Christian-Led Workplaces“

Mark 4, 2024

Jon Hirst

Intro: How is your organization adapting to changing technology, specifically AI? Do you see ways that artificial intelligence can enhance your workflow, or is this shift in technology troubling you? Well, today on the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast, we'll focus on how artificial-intelligence tools affect your organization. Listen in and learn how you can grow in your understanding and adapt to changing realities, with Jon Hirst, the director of innovation with SIL.

Welcome: Welcome to the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast, your home for open, honest, and insightful conversations to help develop your leadership, your team, and build a flourishing workplace culture.

Al Lopus: Hello, I'm Al Lopus, the co-founder of the Best Christian Workplaces and author of the book Road to Flourishing. I'm passionate about helping Christian leaders like you create engaged, flourishing workplaces.

And I’m delighted to welcome Jon Hirst to the podcast today. Jon is the chief innovation officer of SIL. Jon has deep experience in serving nonprofit organizations, with innovation, strategy, content, and technology solutions.

Throughout our conversation today, you'll hear Jon talk about the important role innovation plays in our organizations and culture, how leaders are responding to AI in their workplaces, the possible policies for the use of AI in your workplace, a recommended approach leaders can take in communicating with their teams about AI, and a spiritual approach for the use of AI in Christian workplaces.

I think you're going to love this interview with Jon Hirst. But before we dive in, this episode is brought to you by BCW’s new Leadership 360 and group coaching. We help you transform your leadership effectiveness with our stakeholder-based coaching process. Learn more by going to workplaces.org/coaching, and be sure to check it out today.

And hello to our new listeners. Thanks for joining us as we honor your investment of time into our podcast by creating valuable episodes like this one.

So, let me tell you a little bit more about Jon Hirst. Jon Hirst is the chief innovation officer at SIL International. He leads the innovation team, guides the implementation of the innovation agenda, and resources innovators throughout the SIL ecosystem. He has 25 years of experience bringing global mission, innovation, and communications together in service of the Kingdom. Earlier in his career, he helped develop one of the early interactive evangelical websites for young people. Jon went on to help start two companies focused on serving nonprofit organizations in innovation, strategy, content, and technology solutions. Jon is an author. He's a marketer and publisher, and previously he was the CEO of GMI, or Global Mapping International, where he helped launch the first ministry infographic service.

So, here's my conversation with Jon Hirst.

Jon, it’s really good to have you on the podcast today, and I’m looking forward to our conversation about AI.

Jon Hirst: Great to be with you, Al. Thanks so much for having me.

Al: Yeah.

Okay. Jon, so, our focus today will be on innovations in general; artificial intelligence, or AI; and how that works and affects our work as leaders in Christian organization. In fact, we've named AI as one of the key Christian workplace trends for 2024 in this podcast the first week of January. But first, I'd like you to orient us a little bit about your work as the chief innovation officer, and that's a title that we haven't seen in every organization or very many organizations. So, give us a glimpse of how you work to foster innovation through a large Christian organization. What are the benefits of having an explicit focus on innovation?

Jon: Yeah. Thanks for wanting to dive into that, because it has a lot to do with the culture of the organization.

So, I work with an organization called SIL International, and our job is to help people flourish with the languages they value most. So that’s everything from the very beginnings of a language, like its orthography and getting it written down, or oral strategy for communicating, all the way to literacy, Bible translation, Scripture engagement, community development. It kind of encompasses all those things. And so SIL is an organization that generates a ton of really cool product and content and resources, but a lot of times, there isn't a way to make those available to a lot more people.

And so SIL has really had a passion for innovation. I use a very simple definition of innovation. The focus of innovation is to create new ideas that bring value, so fresh ideas that bring value. That's a definition from a guy named Richard Lyon.

And so what we end up doing in the innovation team that I help lead is to look for all those new, fresh ideas out there in the ecosystem SIL, you know, 4200 people working in over 90 countries and say, “How can this idea add value to the people we’re seeking to serve?”

And we do that really two ways. The first thing we do is I'm responsible for helping to foster a culture of innovation in SIL. And so we annually measure that; we identify areas where our culture is weak in relationship to innovation, areas where it's strong; and then, we come up with a strategy, things to do, to strengthen the culture of innovation.

And then, the second thing I'm really responsible for, which ties into what I kind of started with, is we're responsible for what's called the opportunity pipeline. Kind of a fun name, but what it means is from the moment someone raises their hand and says, “I've got an idea,” to the point where that idea is a skilled program serving millions of people, we manage that process that helps the idea make that journey from one to the other.

Al: Well, Jon, this is fascinating. And fostering a culture of innovation is one of the things that you just mentioned. And I'm curious, when you go to measure the culture of innovation, what are some of the key attributes of what you would describe as a culture of innovation?

Jon: Yeah. These are still forming in our organization. We've only been doing annual measurement for two years, so we're still in the process. But I would say a few of them are, one is what we call idea hospitality. How hospitable is a department, a team, a staff member, national organization to new ideas? So, are they open? Are they welcoming to new ideas? We measure that.

We do a lot of measuring around risk. Is there an openness to risk, to failure, to try new things? Or is there an unwillingness to take risks? We do measurement around what makes innovation hard and what makes it easy, meaning where are the friction points in a new idea being adopted and identifying what those friction points are, what slows down? I think one of the things we measure has to do with reputation, meaning is an organization, an individual, a team so focused on reputation that they're unwilling to try things that might impact that reputation? And that goes a little bit to risk.

And finally, I would say that we do some measurement around the willingness to allocate resources to new ideas, because it's one thing to say, “Hey, we're open to new ideas;” it's another thing to say, “Hey, we're willing to let things fail.” But if they're not even willing to put a person on it or allocate some money to it, then it shows that there really isn't a value for it and that it's not permeated the culture or engaged people well.

Al: That’s fascinating, Jon. Thanks for sharing. Yeah. I love this. Attributes of a culture of innovation. I know a lot of our listeners are thinking, “How do we keep fresh? How do we keep new? How do we,” like the way you described it earlier, “have fresh ideas that bring value, add value to what we do?” Yeah. Thank you.

Well, our listeners are leaders in Christian nonprofits, churches, schools, Christian-led businesses, and some of them have already embraced AI tools in their work, and others may be more hesitant. So, what is the range of responses that you hear when you interact with leaders around the topic of AI? And you talk about innovation in the workplace. I mean, this is right at the front of it. So how can we understand this type of technology in the context of our Christian faith? You know, we hear lots of things about AI: it's the devil's tool. Or, of course, everybody's using it because it comes up with such good content, but yet we wonder about the quality of the content. So, help us out.

Jon: First of all, it's important to say that in SIL at least, we've determined that AI is a critical area of innovation that we really need to take seriously and invest in. And one of the main reasons for that is anything to do with language is going to be significantly impacted by the tooling around AI. The ability to speak from one language to another; be able to understand languages; be able to take content in one language, utilize it for other purposes in other languages; all those areas are going to be dramatically impacted or disrupted through this time.

So, we've made a big investment in it, and I lead a team that is responsible for figuring out how to use AI within SIL. But I’ve also been speaking a lot to leaders, speaking a lot to different Christian nonprofit communities about AI, and I've run into really three responses that I think are helpful for your audience to think about. The first is really the learner, and the learner is just trying to get a baseline, right? What is AI? You know, how does it work? How is it different? You know, is it different than Siri on my phone or Amazon Alexa or, you know, is it just ChatGPT? What really is this thing that you're talking about when you say generative AI. There's a bunch of leaders that are working at that level. And it's good that they're asking the questions, because that's the first step.

There's another whole set of leaders that are really focused on practical ways to use the tech to accomplish their vision and their mission. And so they're really at a very practical level going, “How do I implement?” And so there is a different set of discussions and questions that we have.

And then, finally, there's a smaller set of leaders that are really willing to kind of dive into the deeper issues, whether it's security, intellectual property, theological implications. You know, there's some leaders that are wrestling at that level. I would say, because AI it's such a niche topic, that's not every leader, of course. But I have found leaders willing to engage at that level. And I would encourage leaders, even while they're going through and kind of engaging at those first two levels, not to give up on maybe diving in a little bit, especially at the theological level, because there's some really important elements of our faith that apply to how we're going to use AI.

Al: Yeah. Where are we? Are we learners? Are we in that practical-implementation phase? Are we diving into deeper issues, theological security, other issues? You know, at the Best Christian Workplaces, we've started using AI tools to summarize open-ended Survey responses. And the thing is, we tell our ministry partners that we are using this tool. And this kind of implementation is very efficient and more exact then the human tally. And that's one of the reasons we think we're adding value. There's an example right there of innovation using value. So we've developed a policy on our AI use. And one of the things is we're transparent about communicating it.

An example, kind of like an SIL situation, I was working with an organization that speaks Spanish, and all of their employee responses were in Spanish, you know, 200 employee responses in Spanish. And I used an AI tool that not only translated it, but summarized it and what the comments were. And I thought that was a great use.

So, how do leaders develop an ethical framework for AI, and what kind of policies should leaders consider for AI use as we struggle with these things and as we're implementing and using them? And, you know, how can they develop proper policies? What are your thoughts, Jon?

Jon: As we dive into this topic, I think it's important for us to realize that the latest stage of computer-aided tools that we're working with, these artificial intelligence, especially the generative AI tools, are simply an extension of the progression that computers have been making since the ‘40s and ‘50s. But this is not really a new problem. What does the computer do? What does a human do? It's just a problem that is kind of exponentially more challenging to address, right?

So, the inventors of the computer, you know, Turing and others way back in the day, were already thinking about artificial intelligence way back then, right? And so everything they've done all along the way in the computer industry has all been driving towards what we're seeing today, essentially this merging of human and computer, this sense of having the computer support and aid almost any activity that humans would do.

And so as we think about the ethical framework, I think where we need to start is reminding ourselves that intelligence comes from God. Artificial intelligence is essentially a tool that we've created, with the abilities that God gave us, to accomplish our stewardship responsibility of creation. So if we frame it that way and we remember that AI is simply a tool being used as part of our stewardship responsibility, then when we come to the ethical question, we're asking ethical questions about how to use a tool properly. So as we think about the ethical framework, what we have done at SIL, and we're, hopefully, going to be launching our ethical framework even later this month, but we've had a task force working for several months to develop our ethical policy around AI. And we're breaking it down into a few key sections.

The first one is, does this help advance human flourishing? meaning that if AI ever diminishes or minimizes what God intended a human to be, then that tool is not being used in its stewardship role. And so number one, we want to safeguard human flourishing.

Number two, we want to be very sensitive to the privacy and security issues raised by such a powerful technology. And so there's a lot of things that need to be put in place around privacy and security.

The third is accountability. And this goes to your point, Al, where you were mentioning about, are we explaining when AI is being used? Are we accountable for how it's being used? So that accountability is key.

The fourth one is harmful content. There's a lot of ability for content to be harmful and hurtful with AI because, again, we're outsourcing the management of certain things around the content that is generated and produced that we're still responsible for as the steward. And so a lot of policies around the content and making sure that it is edifying.

And finally, individual agency. And this really speaks to the fact that this tool should never take away the ability of a person to make a decision to do the right thing. And if AI takes away a person's ability to decide to do the right thing, then we're using the technology in a way that is inappropriate.

I'm really encouraging ministries to kind of think through items like that and say, “What can I do to assure both my beneficiaries and my stakeholders and my staff that we've thought through these things and we're being thoughtful and careful as we utilize this new tech?”

Al: All right. So five things that we need to have key ethical considerations, yeah. Does it advance human flourishing? I love that. Are we being sensitive to privacy and security? Are we accountable and transparent as we're using AI? Are we making sure that the content isn't harmful? because, yeah, as you say, there's a lot of harmful content out there. And does it take away from the decision to do the right thing? kind of linking back to your first point about human flourishing. But individual agency. Yeah. Thanks. Just great, Jon. It's good for all of us to think about, about the proper use of that and policies around AI.

So, you know, as we read media stories about AI and the disruptions it's introducing, people in some fields are concerned about their jobs and how they might be replaced by AI. I don't necessarily see it that way, but it's a great way of enhancing productivity, no question. How do Christian leaders help their staff understand AI? This is, again, as we’re talking now about implementing it through our organizations, there are people that are going to feel this way. So do you have some practical steps that leaders can use to help their staff develop digital skills or digital IQ or using these tools? You know, this might be particularly important as we engage with different generations who have varying technical expertise. So what are your thoughts on that, Jon?

Jon: Yeah. You know, you do such a good job, Al, at Best Christian Workplaces of helping create a culture where there's solid and deep relationships with staff and trust and those sorts of things. And that's really, you know, what is needed in a situation like this. When you have a technology that is so disruptive, like artificial intelligence will be over the next five, 10, 15 years, it will affect everyone's job. Now, I agree with you, Al. I'm not one of the pessimists that says that, you know, all the jobs are going away, or everyone's going to lose their job to a machine. But I am a realist to say that almost every job, just like with the computer and then the Internet, every job will be modified as these tools and as these resources are incorporated into those jobs. Even the plumber is going to end up using AI in a variety of ways, much less so than, for instance, an author or a marketer or maybe a lawyer. Different jobs are going to be affected in different ways.

So, what I've been encouraging leaders to do is, number one, start by being very open and transparent with your staff. It is disruptive. Don't try to sugarcoat it. Don't try—just don't just ignore it and say, “Oh, this won't affect us at all.” Don't say, “Oh, it'll all be great, and it's all going to work wonderfully.” It's going to be a bumpy ride, and you need to be really honest with your people about those bumps. There will be jobs that are lost. I think there's going to be a lot of other jobs that are created, but there will be uncertainty in the kinds of jobs that are needed.

The next thing, like you mentioned earlier, there's a term called DQ or digital intelligence. Part of everyone's learning and development plan needs to be, along with your AI policies and your, you know, the different things that you decide as an organization, you need to say, “You need to be learning how to use this stuff. This needs to be part of your growth and development as a staff member,” and asking your managers to really build that into staff members’ growth and development plan.

And then, I think the biggest part of what I think needs to be done is you need to take all the job descriptions in your organization. And this doesn't have to happen in one day, you know. You can do it over time, you know. In large organizations, it may take years to do this. But you take every job and you imagine a dial from 0 to 10 and imagine that the dial at 10 is “AI does this job completely,” and the dial at zero is that “There is no AI in this job at all.” And based on your ethical policy and based on your strategy as an organization, you say, “Where are we setting this dial for this job?” So some jobs, you may say, “You know, AI could really do a lot in this job, but because of our values, because of our ethical policy, because of our commitment, we're actually not going to implement AI in this job, because we think it needs to be highly human in every aspect.” You may have another job where you say, “You know what? In five years, we don't need any staff in this area at all.” And everything in between. But doing that very intentional process of evaluating based on your values, based on your ethical statements, and saying, “What's the level of AI that’s appropriate in this particular role?”

Al: I trust you’re enjoying our podcast today. We’ll be right back after an important word for leaders.

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Al: Welcome back to my conversation with Jon Hirst.

Yeah. What’s the level of AI that’s appropriate? I love your four points here. You know, so leaders, we need to be open. It's going to be a bumpy ride. I think that's great advice, Jon. You know, it's going to be a disruptor, as you said. And second, you know, jobs will be changed, for sure, maybe lost, but over the last 70 years with the use of the computer, everybody's been saying for years, “Well, jobs will be lost.” But actually, you know, all of these create new job opportunities. And we've seen employment growth over that time clearly developed for everybody, you know, a goal of learning how to use it effectively. And then, just look at each job and say, you know, “Okay. Zero to 10, does AI impact this job?” And yeah, for sure, some jobs might require just the human response.

And yeah, Jon, can you share some examples? You know, let's get practical, and share some examples of how organizations adapt to this change. Yeah. I know that we're in the early stages of this technical revolution. And in a practical sense, what practices are working well for organizations as they adopt AI? And are there some cautionary tales, maybe, that you've seen? Again, at SIL, you're at the front end of the applications of AI, I'm sure, but maybe there's some missteps that you've seen that we want to avoid. How can we learn from those? What do you think might be some good examples?

Jon: Let me give you one or two, and I'm going to keep them in the nonprofit space so that they're, you know, as relevant as possible to the world that we're in, very specifically in this podcast. But think about the example of your customer service, your donor relations, right? There's all these questions that donors might have, right? And one of these we're seeing a lot of in the nonprofit space is, “Hey, you know, should we have a chatbot that when the donor wants to say, ’Hey, how do I change my address so that my… or update my credit card,’ or, you know, those kind of logistical things that are about donor relations and communication, “How could I have a chatbot, that's using generative AI, engage with that donor about that very simple, straightforward task, rather than taking one of my staff off of the job that they're doing to do that?” And so I think there's jobs like that where our donor departments have always and are always understaffed anyway. And so many donor departments are seeing things like that as ways to better use their staff’s time. Now, the big question they're asking is, at what point do you hand off a donor to a real person? meaning that there has to be real thought to—it's one thing if the donor says, “I just simply want to change my address.” The donor would be probably very happy to just do that with a chatbot, most of the time. But if the donor has a real question about a program in your ministry, they don't want to ask a chatbot about that program; they want to talk to a person about that, and they want to get their question answered in a human, authentic way that reflects the ministry.

Another example more on the beneficiary side, for instance, let's use a similar situation, but let's go over to Internet evangelism. So imagine that a ministry is doing Internet evangelism in the Middle East, and they've got Facebook pages and Instagram pages and everything, and WhatsApp groups, and they're putting out these videos about the Gospel message, and hundreds of people are responding with instant messenger. The reality is that many of those are bought or people just trying to cloud the line to keep the people that are really interested from getting through. And so many ministries in Internet evangelism are looking at ways to do some of the initial triaging, get rid of all the bots, get rid of all the noise, so they can have humans talk to the real people that really have questions that want to be answered. So those are two examples that are kind of customer-service related.

I think the other areas that we're seeing a lot of real, tangible use is I'm going to give you an example from SIL now. In a very complex job, there's a need to do complex jobs faster. So one of the things that we work on in SIL is Bible translation. Bible translation is a very complex project, and the translator is working with many, many sources, many inputs from the community, from the Greek and the Hebrew. And so our team has actually developed a quality-assurance tool using AI, that when a translator is done with their work, they can put the book of John or Matthew through our QA AI tool, and it shows them with a heat map where there's issues that they have to address. And then this allows the consultant who's working with the translator to not read through everything from scratch right at the beginning, but actually look at the heat map quickly based on equivalence or some other different categories of need, of formality, or based on naturalness of speech. And the consultant can say, “Oh, Matthew 3, there's an issue,” and they can dive right in with a translator and say, “Hey, what's going on in Matthew 3? And what do we need to do to strengthen that up?” And that, then, leads them to then look at the rest of it, but more intentionally. And this is helping our consultant to be much more strategic and focused in some of their work with the Bible translator.

Al: Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Great thoughts, Jon. You know, this is just such a fascinating conversation, and I pray it's helpful to our listeners, and it's helpful to learn some of the nuances of this topic of implementing technical advances in our work ministries, for sure. And as you know, at Best Christian Workplaces, we help organizations focus on factors that create healthy, engaged, flourishing workplaces. And we find that values such as trust and involving people in decision making and providing good growth plans for employees are really key factors. So, what's the foundation that our people and organizations need to have to have the ability to move forward while staying faithful to their mission? What do you see that are some of the core values, perhaps, that are essential for leaders to focus on as we walk through these disruptive times, as jobs are changing because of AI?

Jon: Yeah. This goes back to one of the missteps I see, and I'm going to work it into this answer, Al. I see a lot of leaders, when they get into situations where there's a significant disrupter, fear kind of takes over and they batten down the hatches, right? They lock things down, and they refuse to empower their staff because they're afraid of the unknown that a disruptor might cause. So, for instance, there's some ministries that are putting together a very strict guideline around the use of AI. Essentially, what they're communicating to their staff is, “This technology is something I don't trust you with.” By the way, they've written their policy. And I think that's a real misstep. I think the antidote to that is to really develop policies that say to our staff, “We trust you.”

Now, there may be some guidelines or maybe some frameworks that we put around this for security or, you know, for privacy, for productivity, etc., all those things. Those are all appropriate. But I think one of the first things we have to do is say to our staff, “In this disruptive time, you're part of the solution. I trust you to help us figure out how to use AI. I'm not trying to protect myself from you and how you might use this disruptive technology.” So as leaders, first of all, we need to empower our staff and trust them to be part of the solution.

The next thing I think that leaders need to do is ask staff to be part of thinking through how we will then change what we do based on this new set of information we have based on new technology. So AI is going to actually change some of what we do as ministry. There are tasks we do today that we won't need to do or won’t be done the same. There are whole industries that may go away in some sense. Our staff need to be asked to say, “Hey, will you help me figure out what the future of this particular program, this task, this discipline, is in our organization based on the way that the world is changing as they adopt this technology?” And so, then, what you're doing there is you're involving the staff member in imagining the future of your organization and how the disruption will end up changing it. That's kind of the next level of it, I guess. First, you have to trust them and empower them, and then, listen to them and allow them to be part of that solution.

Al: Those are all keys to an engaged, flourishing workplace, Jon.

Jon: They are. They are.

Al: Trust, start with that. Policies can sound so threatening. Don't do this; don't do that; don't do the other thing. And it makes it sound like, “Yeah, I don't trust you.” So yeah. Actually saying, “We do trust you, and you're part of the solution,” that's great advice. And then, involving staff by listening to their input. Yeah. They're the ones on the front line. And you don't want staff being afraid. “Well, I'm using AI, but I don't want my boss to know about it.” So you don't want that either.

So, we aren't far into this generative AI technology change, and what we know today is different from even six months ago. And again, it was probably just a year ago when ChatGPT came out with such a big splash. So this would be a hard area to predict the future because we're so early into it. But what do you see in terms of AI going into the next couple of years? You know, how can Christian leaders keep their pulse on the changes? And what do we need to watch for on the horizon as we adapt to change?

Jon: I think to Daniel 2. Daniel was faced with this huge, unimaginable, and unpredictable power, which was King Nebuchadnezzar, who said, “I want you to tell me what the dream was, and tell me what it meant.” And in the face of that power, Daniel did three things. He sought to understand. He went to the king, and he talked it through with him, figured out what was really going on. He went into his prayer closet with his three friends and said, “Only God can help us to address this.” And the third thing he did was when God gave him the answer to obey, he followed through. And so as I think about trends and looking into the future, I think about it through that lens of understand, pray, and obey. And I think when we look at the trends, anyone who tells you what's going to happen in six months is blind to you, because we just don't know.

But I can give you two basic buckets for you to think about. Now, the two basic buckets are this. There's one whole focus in the generative AI space that's all about achieving what they call artificial general intelligence. And what that means is it's AI that is as good as a human brain. And so there's a whole bunch of effort, and there’ll be a whole bunch of progress, towards making it where AI is our peer rather than our copilot or assistant or support. This is part of the basic fundamental belief that most technologists have, going back to the ‘40s, that this was our future. So you're going to see lots of progress toward this idea of AI as a peer, not as a copilot. They're starting us out with copilot because we feel more comfortable there. And that's where I believe it belongs, right? But that's not where our technology leaders are wanting it to end up. And we have to be aware of that.

The next bucket is all about efficiency, and that's the near term. What we’re going to see is everywhere you look, every industry, every service provider, every product is going to be incorporating AI in as a way of gaining productivity and efficiency. So on one side, there's a group of people saying, “How do I make AI the peer to the human and have the level of intelligence the human has?” We're going to see trends in progress that way. And whether or not it’s achievable or not, you know, that's up for prognosticators to debate. But that's where they're focused. And then the other set of people are not so focused on that big future vision. They're just simply going, “How do I make things more efficient today?” So any tool you use, just know that AI is going to try to make it more efficient in the next six months. And just have that in your mind as you look at every tool in your arsenal that you use to do your work, to deliver your ministry, to engage with your constituents, etc.

Al: Jon, this has been a fascinating conversation. We're learning so much. And I'm curious. We're familiar with the various tools that are out there. More tools are coming out, more specific applications, many of them, so what's the future? How will these tools mature over time, and how would we use them?

Jon: Yeah. You know, I think when I think about this question, obviously we don't know, right? So we have to start out by that humility of saying we don't know what'll happen. But I see it happening in two ways as I've watched what's happened so far.

Number one, it's like there will be no change and huge change all at once, meaning that in a lot of ways, AI is just going to be in everything you already use. So you're going to go into Microsoft Word, and AI is going to be throughout Word and how you write that document, right? So in some way, it's not all that different than what you're doing today. You just have a lot more capability as you write your letter than you had before.

But in other ways, the change is going to be more significant. And I think there's going to be whole new devices—we're already seeing new hardware come out—that is essentially the next round of the mobile phone. There's multiple ones out there right now. It's a small device that does everything a phone does, but it adds on hundreds of AI capabilities to walk with you throughout your day and help you with things.

So I think the biggest change we're going to see, whether it's through glasses or something in your ear or maybe through a phone, you know, that you carry, you're going to have a tool that brings all these AI services just in time to use as you walk through your day in every activity. So in some ways, it'll be no change; and in some ways, it's going to be like a constant change, kind of that walks with you all day long.

Al: Yeah. Wow. Okay. Well, Jon, we've learned so much from our conversation. Thanks so much. This has just been drinking from a firehose. And, you know, thinking about it, just going back to your role in innovation and the way you define it, fresh ideas that bring value, and how we need to have new innovations in all of our organizations. And I loved your attributes of a culture of innovation. Just to be sure that we're open to ideas, new ideas. Idea hospitality, I love that term. You know, our openness to risk. You know, what do we say when innovation comes along? Is it hard or easy? Are we willing to actually change our reputation, which is almost a spiritual question? And then, are we willing to allocate new resources to the change? And, you know, I love, again, just the descriptions, the help that you've given us on creating policies around AI. And does it advance human flourishing? Is it sensitive to privacy and security? Is it accountable and transparent? Does it screen out harmful content? Does it provide individual agency? I mean, those are just great, great ideas for policies. And your advice for leaders, you know, just be open with staff. And yes, it's going to be a hard and bumpy road, but that as we go through it, we're going to discover opportunities and ways that we can use it. Certainly, jobs will be lost, but others will be recreated. And it's really a matter of developing a plan and asking people to learn while they, as leaders, look at job descriptions and say, “Okay. What's the role of AI in each of these jobs?” I think being proactive in that is really helpful. So you gave us great examples of the actual applications of AI as well as some foundations for us to consider. So, thanks, Jon. This has just been a great conversation.

Let me ask you, is there something else that you'd like to add that we've talked about?

Jon: Yeah. Well, Al, it's wonderful to be on with you. I appreciated working with you over the years and appreciate so much what you and Best Christian Workplaces have done in supporting Christian nonprofits.

You know, I think the big thing I would say is have a real spiritual sensitivity to your motivation for using AI. Are you doing this just because you don't want to be left out? Are you doing this because you're afraid of the impact on your organization? You're not doing it because you're afraid of using it. Is fear involved? Are you doing it because you're proud? because you say, “We're going to be the best. We're going to be the first”? Or are you doing this out of a spirit of humility and wanting to expand your usefulness and stewardship in the Kingdom. And checking that motivation as you’re using the technology is going to be really critical to your success in rolling it out in a way that honors the Lord.

Al: Well, Jon, thanks so much for your contribution today. And most of all, I appreciate your commitment to helping people consider how their faith foundation connects with the technology changes that they face in their Kingdom work. So, thanks for taking your time out to speaking to so many of our listeners.

Jon: Great to be with you.

Al: Thank you so much for listening to my conversation with Jon Hirst. And I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did.

You can find ways to connect with him and links to everything we discussed in the show notes and transcript at workplaces.org/podcast.

And if you have any suggestions for me about our podcast or have any questions on creating flourishing workplace cultures, please email me, al@workplaces.org.

And leaders, if you want to improve your leadership, expand your organization's impact for good, and see greater faithfulness in our broader culture, help us achieve our goal to see more flourishing Christian-led workplaces. To help, please share this podcast with another leader or launch a project in your own organization to discover and improve the health of your workplace culture. If you're interested in learning more, go to workplaces.org and request a sample report.

Outro: The Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast is sponsored by Best Christian Workplaces. If you need support building a flourishing workplace culture, please visit workplaces.org for more information.

We'll see you again next week for more valuable content to help you develop strong leaders and build a flourishing workplace culture.

Al: Next week, you're going to love my conversation with Mark Miller, the well-known author of Culture Rules: The Leader's Guide to Creating the Ultimate Competitive Advantage.