Transcript: Christmas Changes Everything: A Journey of Transformation with Elisa Morgan // Elisa Morgan, Our Daily Bread Ministries

Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast

“Christmas Changes Everything: A Journey of Transformation with Elisa Morgan“

December 25, 2023

Elisa Morgan

Intro: In this Christmas season, how can you gain fresh insight, even encouragement, from the Christmas Story? Well, I encourage you during this busy season: don't miss out on what God has for you through the birth of Jesus. Today on the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast, we'll focus on how you can continue to learn from the people in the Christmas Story. Listen in as I talk with Elisa Morgan about how you can keep growing as a disciple of Jesus, even if you've been celebrating Christmas for many decades.

Welcome: Welcome to the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast, your home for open, honest, and insightful conversations to help develop your leadership, your team, and build a flourishing workplace culture.

Al Lopus: Hello, I'm Al Lopus, the co-founder of the Best Christian Workplaces and author of the book Road to Flourishing: Eight Keys to Boost Employee Engagement and Well-Being, which was a finalist in the Christian Book Awards. I'm passionate about helping Christian leaders like you create engaged, flourishing workplaces.

I’m delighted to welcome Elisa Morgan to the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast today. Elisa serves in a variety of roles with Our Daily Bread Ministries. She's also the co-host of the God Hears Her podcast, and she's the co-host of Discover the Word, a syndicated radio program.

Throughout our conversation today, you’ll hear Elisa talk about how Christmas changed Mary from a young girl to the mother of God; how some of us relate to Simeon, waiting for the promise of God; how we can learn from Herod's response to Christmas; and finally, a word for us to ponder for ourselves as we experience this Christmas season.

I think you're going to love the interview with Elisa Morgan. But before we dive in, in this Christmas season, we dedicate this podcast to you, our listeners. Thank you for joining us on the journey to build a flourishing workplace for your organization. Leadership is hard, it's often lonely, and today we celebrate you and your faithfulness to serve in ministry and business. Thank you for joining us, and we wish you and yours a very Merry Christmas.

I’d also like to welcome our new listeners, and thanks for joining us.

But let me tell you a little bit more about Elisa Morgan. Elisa was named by Christianity Today as one of the top 50 women influencing today's church and culture. For 20 years, Elisa served as the CEO of MOPS International, an outreach ministry to mothers of preschoolers. She's also served on the board of the Denver Seminary, where she received her own MDiv. Currently, Elisa has a variety of roles with Our Daily Bread Ministries. She's the co-host of God Hears Her podcast, sharing stories of hope and encouragement. She's also the co-host of the syndicated radio program Discover the Word, with a daily 15-minute conversation around the written and living Word of God. She writes regularly for the Our Daily Bread devotional. Elisa is a prolific author, with more than 25 books on mothering, spiritual formation, and evangelism. Her latest book is Christmas Changes Everything: How the Birth of Jesus Brings Hope to the World.

Here's my conversation with Elisa Morgan.

Elisa, it's great to have you back on the podcast. Thanks for joining me.

Elisa Morgan: My pleasure. We were just joking that maybe I was on podcast number two or something back in the day.

Al: Yeah. Well, I’m really looking forward to our conversation. And this is Christmas time for our listeners, and I'm really looking forward to our conversation.

But let’s go back because I have some great memories working with you when you were the CEO of MOPS. And it’s such a great pleasure to have Best Christian Workplaces come alongside you to focus on employee engagement and ministry health.

You led MOPS for several years and then transitioned to other ministry offerings in the last decade or so. So let's catch up with you. Where are you now? In fact, I think we have a lot of ministry leaders who want to know if there's life after being a ministry CEO.

Elisa: That’s a great question.

Al: Yeah. Tell us, what’s your call in this season? How do you see God using your experience as you continue in these different settings?

Elisa: Well, I'll just be full-out honest and say it was a wobbly transition. I was in my early fifties, and that's a little early to step down from that level of leadership. I had a lot of energy and a lot of focus and vision left, but it was clear to me that the organization I served, MOPS International—it’s now called The MomCo by MOPS International. Just changed its name at its 50th anniversary—anyway, it was clear to me that it had always been by mothers of preschoolers for mothers of preschoolers. And I was a grandmother of preschoolers, and I just thought, you know, I really sensed God leading me to relinquish it to the next generation. So that is a call. And I think when we're leaving, stepping down, there's a call within it if we'll listen for it. But as I said, it was wobbly. I couldn't understand everything, so I didn't do it perfectly.

I remember the first couple of years after leaving MOPS, I said yes to just about anything that anybody offered me, because I just wanted to cast my net very wide. I went on the board of a graduate school. I spoke a ton. I went to Africa with the ONE Campaign. I did all kinds of crazy things until finally God settled me at Our Daily Bread Ministries. And there I joined this on-air Bible study with a bunch of men sitting around the table, and it's called Discover the Word, and we unpack scripture together. Then, I began to do a podcast with a woman 30 years younger than me, called God Hears Her. I write for the devotional. I still speak. I still serve as president emerita of this MomCo. So it's a great adventure.

But, you know, I think I'll go straight into this one thought. When we step down from a place of high influence, we're usually in the later stages of our lives. And God's really begun to reveal to me that our job there is to bless the next generations as we relinquish to them, to get out of their way, to allow things to be done differently and freely, to clap and cheer, to let them ask the questions rather than tell them what to do. So I'm learning so much from that transition still, and I've been gone 14 years now.

Al: Wow. I say over and over again, Elisa, much like you just said, being able to leave a healthy or even flourishing workplace culture is one of the best things a leader can do for the next leader. And you did that.

Elisa: Thank you.

Al: Absolutely.

Elisa: Thank you. It's tricky to do, and you always kind of wonder, “Did I do that right?” But when you know you're being tapped by God, need to pay attention.

Al: Yeah. Well, congratulations.

Well, we’re now in the Christmas season, and today I'd like to kind of emphasize entering into the Christmas Story for our listeners. And it’s been a busy year, and we're kind of coming to the end of it. And we're often just focused on practical insights in our podcast, that equips leaders to lead flourishing workplaces. But we also have this spiritual-health dimension of inspirational leadership that's important, so that's why we're going to focus on this. And, you know, Christmas is an important part of God's redemptive plan for the world. And practically speaking, Christmas is also—that's a busy time for everybody, especially for ministry leaders and our listeners and our leaders and churches and ministries and other, you know, Christian-led businesses. And so they're usually planning special Christmas services, Christmas dinners, working towards year-end goals. They're wrapping up the fundraising year. And if they have families, there's a lot of expectations around having a magical Christmas, perhaps, for a family. So in your experience over the years, how have you found a way to focus on what matters at Christmas? How has your own celebration of Christmas grown and deepened over these years?

Elisa: Hm. You know, Al, you said it beautifully. Christmas is a busy season, but it’s also, at times, a painful season because we build up these expectations that it's going to be magical and perfect and everybody's going to get along, and etc. And usually, it falls short of our expectations. That's because we forget what Christmas is, you know. It really is an advent of metamorphosis. It's an advent of change. It's an advent of hope and restoration and rejuvenation, and wow! is what it is. And when we step back and realize that life as we know it and our faith would not exist without Christmas. It's year long that we celebrate it. The line that goes through my head, and I can't get it out of my head, is that Christmas truly changes everything when Christmas becomes Christmas. And, you know, a lot of us, we think Christmas is about choirs and children's programs and presents and holiday get togethers, as you described, and special services. And all those things are beautiful. But until Christmas really changes who we are in terms of where our hope lies, it's just another holiday. So I think backing up and reminding myself, when did Christmas become Christmas to me? and maybe, when did I slip away from what Christmas is and forget what it's really about in terms of the gift of Jesus?

Al: You're causing me to think deeply about some of my own Christmases, positive ones. And then, as you say, you know, we're often disappointed at the end of the season. But you've written a book, Christmas Changes Everything, and you just used those words, and so you explore the Christmas Story through each of the characters and how it changed them. And I'm looking forward to even seeing me changed this Christmas, as you introduce this.

So we don't go into detail through every person of the Story, generally speaking, so let's talk a little bit about some of these individuals in the Story. Let's start with Mary. She certainly has a key part in the Story, doesn't she? And so what does that mean for our lives, Mary's influence in Christmas? How can our own lives be changed, understanding her part of the Story?

Elisa: Yeah. We look at 10 different characters in the Story, and you're right, we don't look at all of them, but we have to start with Mary. You know, Mary was, like, 12 years old when the angel appeared to her. She was a devout Jewess. She loved God. She knew that a Messiah was on the way. She never dreamed it would be through her own womb. And she just responded with shock and wonder and amazement, but not doubt, which is very interesting. It was more a kind of a curiosity. “How are you going to accomplish this?” she says to the angel.

Mary moved from being a betrothed, young, innocent virgin, and Christmas changed her to becoming, really, the mother of God, the mother of Jesus. Wow. She went to bed one day a virgin, and woke up the next day impregnated by the Holy Spirit. That's radical. And as I look at that, because, you know, honestly, she's one of the women in scripture we know the most about. So much is written about Mary, you know, just in the New Testament. And we can skip over it and not really see what a beautiful puzzle the gospel writers offer of her character. But I was pondering, how did this yes get said? Mary said yes to God. And how did this happen in her life?

She was devout, and she was obedient. But, you know, she's sandwiched in this place where she's been betrothed, engaged, but she's not married, and the relationship has not had sexual intercourse yet. She's still living with her parents. She hasn't even moved in with Joseph's parents. She's very vulnerable. Maternal morbidity was incredibly high in New Testament times. Babies didn't live past the first few months of life, much less five years, in those days. The shame socially that she faced.

So how did she say yes to God? And I think Luke gives us the answer when we look in chapter one and then in chapter two. You see a phrase repeated as the narrator, Luke, the historian, tells us about Mary. He says that she treasured these things and pondered them in her heart. And that really means to store up. And then to ponder is to think over, to place side by side, to examine.

I imagine her saying yes, and then adding another yes and another yes, as she went to see Elizabeth, and then Mary and Joseph did get married. And then after that, you know, they went to Egypt, and they received—anyway, one yes after another, almost like she's strung them together. And in moments when she doubted, it's like she took this bundle of yeses out of her heart and unpacked it on the table and remembered how faithful God had been.

That's an illustration we can take to heart ourselves, you know, when God invites us into a relationship. You know, Mary accepted. That's the word. Each one of these characters, I give you a word to hold on to. Mary's is accept. She accepted God's invitation, said yes, and then layered her yeses over the years.

I mean, think about your life, Al. You know, you said one yes to Jesus at some point and another and another.

Al: And the key steps along the way. You know, we say yes again and again. And then, we also remember the yeses that we've said before. And we kind of think now, you know, it's really too bad God has to remind us to say yes.

Elisa: I just was processing with another group about when we say yes, even though we repeat it and God generously is patient with us, we often face a kind of a trust trial. You know, what did I say yes to? And how is He going to show up in this? You know, I said yes to being the CEO here. I said yes to this speaking engagement. I said yes to this marriage proposal. Now, how is God going to show up and provide for me in this? I don't know how to balance checkbooks. I don't know how to do a strategic plan. How… and so that yes really nudges us forward into a trust trial, where we expect and experience God's faithfulness in ways we never maybe imagined before.

And yeah, He does remind us of ways He's been faithful in the past. I mean, for Mary, all the way to the cross, where she stood and watched her son be crucified for you and me. Don't you think she thought back to that angel's visit in her 11-, 12-year-old girl body going, “What? Okay. I said yes. And somehow God will bring healing and restoration out of this moment, even on the cross.”

Al: Yeah. Wow. This is already thoughtful and deep for us to think about as we are entering Christmas. But let's talk about, well, moving from one of the youngest characters, that's Mary, now to one of the oldest.

We find Simeon in Luke's gospel. And just after Jesus’s birth, Mary and Joseph brought Jesus to the temple for purification. So remind us of the part that Simeon plays in the Story. I love hearing this and kind of what happened. So what can we learn from Simeon and how it applies to us? How did Christmas change everything for Simeon?

Elisa: It's fun to look at the contrast, Al, and I think it's neat that you pointed that out between Mary, the youngest, and Simeon, the oldest. Simeon was a prophet, and he lived in the temple, and he had been revealed through the Holy Spirit that he would see the Messiah, the Christ child, before he died, before the constellation of Israel, which is the verbiage that Luke uses, and that really means the fulfillment of God's promise, His covenant promise, to send a Savior. And so one day when Mary and Joseph are bringing the tiny baby Jesus up to be dedicated in the temple, it just so happens—don't you love that, how God's timing works?—it just so happens that Simeon is coming out of the temple as they're going in, and they cross paths.

Now, Simeon had waited for years, and the word that I use for Simeon is wait, because who among us has not faced a deep, long season of waiting? For my husband and myself, we knew that we would have children through adoption, not biologically, and we signed up pretty much when we first got married. But four and a half years into the wait, I remember one Christmas, and this will echo our comments about some Christmases are disappointing, I remember one Christmas I set up this Christmas tree, and I stuffed baby's breath in the branches and tied pink and blue ribbons on it. And every day I would stop by it, because we'd waited so long, and I would pray, “Dear God, could we have the baby by Christmas?” And they'd said, “This is completely ridiculous, how long this has taken. Surely, you're next.” And December 21st came, and no baby. And then, we got a phone call, and the social worker said, “No, you just need to not worry about it this year.”

And I think about that pain and Simeon's pain. You know, when you're filled with the Holy Spirit, I think your waiting posture is different. It's like when God promises us through His word, or maybe He uses a dream, or maybe He uses a prayer, or maybe He uses a wise counsel to assure us that He's placed us in a given position, and He will equip us, or He will provide for the ministry that's under our care, or He will come through in that He loves our child more than we love our child. When you walk with the Holy Spirit, God gives us these reassurances. That's what the hope of our relationship is all about. We're not living alone.

But Simeon was tired and weary, and yet when Mary places that baby Jesus in his arms, he prophesies over the baby, not a very fun prophecy, but a prophecy that will fulfill God's purposes for all humankind, to restore us in relationship with Him.

Al: Yeah. And I think of our listeners here at Christmas time or coming up to the end of the year. There’s still probably promises that we felt God say to us that have yet to be fulfilled. And so, yeah. Wait.

Elisa: Yeah. Waiting for those checks to come in, those pledges to show up, that decision to be made about employment. Yeah. We have a lot of examples to follow after these characters, though.

Al: Yeah. So, Simeon, wait. And what a joy it was for him to actually then see what he was waiting for, the baby Jesus, the Messiah. Yeah. Yeah. I recall he was pretty happy.

Elisa: Yes.

Al: So when we think about the Christmas Story, most of us don't think about Herod, you know. In fact, we'd probably prefer not to. You know, he was really bad news—

Elisa: He was.

Al: —in the midst of really good news. But in your book, you included a chapter about Herod. So why is Herod’s struggle for power important in our understanding of Christmas? What can we learn from Herod in this Story?

Elisa: I'm struck by—I mean, I would always glance right over him, too, Al. But when I paused and looked at—he’s a significant backdrop in the Christmas Story. He's human, and God loved him as much as he loved the Magi or the shepherds or Anna or Elizabeth or any one of these people. Herod was corrupt. He was probably mentally challenged, insane, even. He was diabolical. He acted as if he was a royal heir, Israel's royal king, when he really was not, and he was not really even a practicing Jew. He was so threatened by an earthly king, the lineage coming, that we all know he tried to distract the Magi and get them to turn in all the babies that they had visited. And he ended up killing all the babies who were two years or younger during that time. And, you know, God protected Mary and Joseph and the Magi through dreams, warning them all to take another route to get out of Dodge, so to speak.

But I'm struck by Herod because he, too, is an example of the fact that Christmas can change everything. But Herod refused. Herod rejected Christmas. He went from a schemer, and not to a believer, but to a slayer. I know it broke God's heart the way it breaks God's heart that Judas made that choice, that Pharaoh makes this choice, that the various ones of us make those choices. It also reveals God's love for us, that He yields us to our desires. But I think it's an important thing to look at. Are there big or small ways that I'm rejecting Jesus this Christmas, that I am holding on to how I define power, how I define control and safety and predictability and success? When Jesus comes, when Christmas comes, will I allow Him to change even the way I stack up power and invert it to the background characters, to the less-thans, to the not so importants? Will I elevate those in my life the way God does? I think Herod has a lot to teach us. Christmas changes everything. It could have changed things in a different way for him, but in reality, it changed him from being a schemer to a slayer.

Al: And is there a word for Herod that you…?

Elisa: Oh, yes, there is. An important word. Let me give you that, is learn. The word is learn. And you know, I really wanted a positive word as I was processing through that. I kept thinking reject. I kept thinking refuse. But as I really looked at his story, I thought that the takeaway word for us is learn. We can learn from even Herod's choices.

Al: I trust you’re enjoying our podcast today. We’ll be right back after an important word for leaders.

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Al: Welcome back to my conversation with Elisa Morgan.

Yeah. Elisa, it reminds me, we all are involved and most of us are involved with families sometimes as we get together for Christmas. It's not what we expect. And how do we learn to love our families? Some that may not believe the way we believe, act the way we think they should act, a whole bunch of things. How do we learn? Yeah, great word.

Elisa: Al, if I could just give a story there. I mean, I'm old now, and my kids are old, and my grandkids are old. My oldest grandson's 19 and a half. So, I mean, we are still at it. But over the years, the softening of God in my heart, that “Elisa, you don't have to know how to do everything. This is not all up to you.” I mean, there was a year when my daughter wasn’t with us at Christmas, because she had run off with some guy. And there was a year my son wasn't with us at Christmas, because he was struggling with an issue in his life. And I remember, too, just a couple of years ago, we had this juggle thing that a lot of families do with birth families and stepfamilies and yada, yada. So we were celebrating Christmas on not Christmas Day. And I turned to one of my family members, and I said, “I can't wait till next year when we get to celebrate all together on Christmas.” And this sweet family member just burst out crying and said, “Oh, I worked so hard to make it so perfect this year.” And I thought, “What do I want?” And God really nudged me, Elisa, and helped me to learn—there’s that word—to maybe turn over Christmas to some of the next generations. I don't need to be in charge of it. I've been in charge of it for 40 years. How about, you know, if I empower the next generation, and I cooperate there.

So, yeah, Al. There's so much we still have to learn, all of us.

Al: That's great. That's great word for Herod and for each of us.

And so, you know, Elisa, you've done a lot of writing and speaking about brokenness, including your book, The Beauty of Broken. You've shared honestly about how we're all broken in some way, and God still uses us for Kingdom purposes. And I think every one of us understand that and feel that way. Some of our listeners might actually be dreading Christmas rather than celebrating because of the brokenness of their own lives. So what would you say to the person who's listening that just wants to skip over Christmas because of their current struggles? How do we celebrate Christmas even in our brokenness and when our circumstances don't make us feel like celebrating?

Elisa: Yeah. And I hope you can relate to some of the illustrations that I just gave. I mean, our family has been far from perfect. It is tempting sometimes to just become cynical and give it up, and, you know, if it's not all that in a Hallmark movie. Everything in my house is not red and green and plaid and perfectly matched. It's just not. But nobody's is. The reality is that the very first Christmas was a broken Christmas. Society was broken by a triple tax; that the people were enduring just incredible suffering financially. There was a lot of persecution going on. There was—people were hungry. The very first Christmas was borne to a pregnant and on-the-way-to-be-married—they did get married—couple. It wasn’t tied up with a bow. They didn't even mark it on December 25th. And it was humble, but it was beautiful.

And I think what I would really encourage us to do is to take this little book and these ten characters, Christmas Changes Everything, and take two each week in the weeks of Advent and look at the name, look at the human—it was a human being. It’s not a made-up person—and look at their word and ask God to write that word in your heart.

You know, for Mary, it's accept. For Joseph, it's yield. Elizabeth is rejoice. Zachariah is believe. Shepherds were share. Simeon, wait. Anna, worship. Magi, seek. Herod, learn. And then I also picked a word for you and me and everybody listening, Al, and that's maybe what we want to leave with people, and that's the word welcome. Welcome. And I think about every Christmas when I, you know, decorate my house—I decorate the inside. I decorate the outside. Evan and grandsons usually do the outside. I decorate the inside—but that welcome mat, that welcome note at my front door, I want it to be on the front door of my heart, too. What do you want to teach me this year about how Christmas changes everything? God, how do You want to change me this year through the gift of Jesus? Do You want to heal me? Do You want to give me hope? Do You want to help me wait? Do You want to love me in a way I've pushed you away? Do You want to teach me through my failures? Do You want to forgive me? Do You want to help me to forgive somebody else? We're just not done.

I always like to say that, Al. We're not done until we're dead. You know, we are in process still. So welcoming His gift of change is what I want to leave with us.

Al: Yeah. Let's have that word on our hearts, welcome, as we think about Christmas this year. Yeah.

Well, Elisa, you know, you and I are in a season of life where we celebrated lots of Christmases. You know, that might be true for many of our listeners as well. But some may be celebrating Christmas even for the first time, or they're going to be with somebody celebrating for Christmas for the first time. And as an adult, how do we understand the hope of Jesus? How do we help our celebration of Christmas? How do we keep it fresh? What's your expectation for each of us in this Christmas season?

Elisa: Mm-hmm. One thing to kind of turn around—I've had fun doing this at various seasons. You can't do it all the time. Kids will go, “Oh, Mom.” But once in a while—to do something like, “What would you give to God this Christmas?” You know, we make it all about the gifts. You know, what do I want to give God? What does He want to give me? You know, that's the important exchange of Christmas, because Christmas is about restoration. You know, it really is a revolution. It's a change in us. And then, because it's a change in us, it's a change through us. And for anybody who happens to be listening to this and you're going, “Huh?” and you're like, “I've heard about Jesus all the time, but I don't know what you mean,” just bottom line, this is how my pastor says it, God loves you, and there is nothing you can do about it. And He gave the gift of Jesus, to die on the cross, for we're not so great—we call that sin in Christianity—so that we could be reconciled to God, and we can be in relationship with Him, and we don't have to do life alone. And it's that simple.

So Christmas changes everything because God gives the gift of Jesus. And we remember that at Christmas. But it's true every single day.

Al: You know, what do we want to give God for Christmas? I mean, we do get consumed oftentimes in thinking about other people. But yeah. Great thoughts.

Elisa, this has been a great conversation. I appreciate it so much. I know our listeners are getting a lot out of it, and I really appreciate all we've learned. Think about, even as you started off, talking about the transition from being a CEO, and that was even a little wobbly. I think there's a lot of previous CEOs that would say the same thing. And I'm so glad the way God is using you and the work that you're doing in broadcasting and writing and speaking. Also, and just think about the experience of Christmas and how Christmas does and should, and I hope that it does for all of our listeners this year, change everything. And will we let it change us, is the question. I loved your thoughts about that. And I think about Mary, as we talked about Mary, the young girl, and I think of the word transformation, as you described her, going from that young girl to the mother of God in a very short period of time, and how she loved the word, accept, you describe accept. Mary accepted and built faith step after step after step if she said yes to God. And then Simeon, his word, wait, and how he was so glad because it had been such—he was so tired of waiting, I’m sure. He’s very tired, yeah. And the pain that we all experience of waiting and having unfulfilled or having dreams that are unfulfilled. And Herod, you really turned the table on him, because we think of him as being just so evil. But the word is learn. And gosh, we wish he would have looked and learned what was really happening and, hopefully, would have taken advantage of it.

But this has just been a great conversation, and I appreciate, also, your challenge to us to let's really talk about the word welcome. And, you know, let's have God at the front door of our hearts as we welcome Him this Christmas.

So this has just been a great conversation. What else would you like to add as we've talked about this so far?

Elisa: I guess just thinking about that word welcome a little more, Al. In Mark 9, Jesus says to His disciples—everybody's bringing the nannies, the moms, the dads. They're bringing their children to Him, and the disciples are uncomfortable with it. And Jesus says, “You know what? Whoever welcomes a child like this welcomes me.” And that's that word welcome. And it's a coming into closeness and relationship. So to just unpack a little more, that's what welcome means. It's not sitting outside the front door, wishing it would open, you know. It's just opening it wide and inviting somebody in, whoever, however, whenever. You think about in your family, maybe somebody who's been estranged; or maybe you think about somebody in your workplace that's been difficult, kind of always pops the balloons of excitements; or maybe you think about an element in your life, even an illness, a debt, a disagreement; when we welcome those things closer into our relationship with Jesus—you know, welcoming Him and then welcoming those things—that's where forgiveness and hope are born. That’s where they begin to grow and take hold, and we have opportunities to live differently. So let's really stretch that welcome out and consider it as we go from this Christmas into the next year.

Al: Amen and amen.

Well, Elisa, thanks so much for your contribution today. Most of all, I appreciate your commitment to authentically sharing the truth of Jesus, especially at this Christmas season, and using your influence to continue to lift others to grow in their faith. You know, thanks for taking this time out today, and thanks for sharing the word welcome. And may God give us the spirit of welcome as we open and throw open the doors for others that we might welcome them this Christmas. Thanks for speaking into the lives of so many of our listeners.

Elisa: You’re so welcome.

Al: Thanks so much for listening to my conversation with Elisa Morgan. And I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did.

You can find ways to connect with her and links to everything we discussed in the show notes and transcript at workplaces.org/podcast.

And if you have any suggestions for me about our podcast or have any questions on a flourishing workplace culture, please email me, al@workplaces.org.

And leaders, if you want to improve your leadership, expand your organization's impact for good, and see greater faithfulness in our broader culture, help us achieve our goal to see more flourishing Christian-led workplaces. To help, please share this podcast with another leader or launch a project in your organization to discover and improve the health of your workplace culture. If you're interested in learning more, go to workplaces.org and request a sample report.

Outro: The Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast is sponsored by Best Christian Workplaces. If you need support building a flourishing workplace culture, please visit workplaces.org for more information.

We'll see you again next week for more valuable content to help you develop strong leaders and build a flourishing workplace culture.

Al: Next week, listen in as BCW’s president, Jay Bransford, and I launch into the New Year with our 2024 workplace-trends discussion. Yes. What are the trends impacting you and your workplace in 2024?