Transcript: How to Engage in Meaningful Conversations with Baby Boomers, Gen X, Millennials, and Gen Z // Darrell Hall, The Way Community Church

Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast

“How to Engage in Meaningful Conversations with Baby Boomers, Gen X, Millennials, and Gen Z“

October 2, 2023

Darrell E. Hall

Intro: How do you communicate effectively with people who have different needs and expectations? Whether you lead a school, a church, a Christian nonprofit, or a marketplace business, you interact with people from different generations. Today on episode number 357 of the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast, we learn from someone who has done the research and who has practical experience in communicating across generations. Listen in to learn how you can connect well with all generations and the surveyors of your influence and in your workplace.

Welcome: Welcome to the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast, your home for open, honest, and insightful conversations to help develop your leadership, your team, and build a flourishing workplace culture.

Al Lopus: Hello, I'm Al Lopus, the co-founder of the Best Christian Workplaces and author of the award-winning book Road to Flourishing: Eight Keys to Boost Employee Engagement and Well-Being. And I'm passionate about helping Christian leaders like you engage flourishing workplaces.

I’m delighted to welcome Dr. Darrell Hall to the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast today. Darrell is the pastor of The Way Community Church in the Atlanta area. That's a church plant of Elizabeth Baptist Church. He's also the author of Speaking across Generations: Messages that Satisfy Boomers, Xers, Millennials, Gen Z, and Beyond.

You're going to love this conversation. And through it, you’ll hear Darrell talk about how we should consider each generation as distinct people groups, and that, believe it or not, there's actually tension between boomers and millennials, and we talk about that. Also, the communication patterns that connect each of the five generations in our community, with specific examples, are discussed; and how to build an intergenerational approach instead of a multi-generational approach to communication. So listen in to find out exactly what he means by that.

So, I think you're going to love this interview with Darrell. But before we dive in, this episode is brought to you by the Best Christian Workplaces Employee Engagement Survey. You can sign up today to discover the health of your organization's culture. This fall would be a wonderful time to listen to your employees, with an easy-to-administer online Engagement Survey by going to workplaces.org. That’s workplaces.org. Being a certified best Christian workplace improves your ability to attract more talented employees and keep them longer.

Well, hello to our new listeners. And thanks for joining us as we honor your investment of time by creating valuable episodes like this.

So, let me tell you a little more about today’s guest. The Reverend Dr. Darrell Hall has a D.Min from Beeson Divinity School, and his doctoral research focused on generational intelligence and effective intergenerational communication. Dr. Hall's ministry paradigm is constructed upon his calling to preach the Word of God with integrity and freshness to hearers of all generations and nations. And he helps ordinary people discover their unique significance in God's kingdom.

So here's my conversation with Darrell Hall.

Darrell, share a little bit with us about your background in ministry. You know, a lot of people grow up and come to faith and then move on from one school to another, to one job to another. But you came to faith at Elizabeth Baptist Church. And then, you've actually served as a teen, you've served as a young adult, and then as a youth pastor. Now you're an author. So what prepared you for understanding how different generations receive the Good News of Jesus?

Darrell Hall: Great, great question, Al. You know, you're right. My path has been a unique one. I am what some define or describe as a prenatal member of my home church. So it was a church my mother grew up in, my aunt, and it was our family's church when I was born. And so I received the Lord there at six years old, was baptized there, grew up in the children and youth ministry through Sunday school, and all of the above. And then, you know, sang in various choirs, usher boards, really anything I could do, basketball league. Anything I could do at the church I did. And then, I realized around 17 that God was calling me to preach. And it was, many people in my local church, my home church, who could affirm it, they could see it on me. And my pastor was very supportive from the beginning; literally from day one, supported me, and poured into me, him, and so many others there.

And so after acknowledging the call to preach, my opportunities for service took on a different form. My first stop was I was our pulpit assistant and the backup preacher to our senior pastor. Then, I served young adults, served youth. And then, for the last nine years, I've been a campus pastor at one of our five metro Atlanta-area campuses. And interestingly enough, four months ago, so January of 2023, our campus was planted by my mother church as an autonomous church. So I'll be 37 in July. So for the first 36 and a half years of my life, I was a member of one church. And I think the way that uniquely shaped me is, number one, my love for my home church. When a church has shaped you and been so intricate to your life's ups and downs, you genuinely love it. And regardless of what position you hold or don't, you want the best for your church. So I think it started just with an authentic love for my church and for my pastor and just a deep conviction that God had called me to support him and to support the church.

And so when I got to my doctoral research, I wanted to do research that could be of benefit to our local church. And so I began to kind of seek the Lord about how He had been providentially moving. And I realized, Al, I was baptized by fire. You know, I was thrown in the fire from a young age to serve, preach to, and teach to people of all different ages. And so I wanted to explore that, you know, see if there was some credible research behind some of my hunches. I mean, it turned into a great research project for my doctorate and even better research project, you know, that went into the book.

Al: Well, Darrell, I have to say, I just love the story, you know, that for 36 years you've been part of the same church that your pastor saw your gifting, your talent, and developed that, helped mentor you through that process. And I just hope that and believe that that's a great path. And may that be the case for more and more churches going forward. Fantastic.

Well, you know, so yeah, you've done your doctoral work, but now you've written a book, Speaking across Generations. And so that brings together your experience as a pastor and your research into communications, your, clearly, I'm sure, your doctoral work as well. And at the same time, as you're doing all that research, you're a practitioner. You preach, you serve as a pastor in an intergenerational church, and then, you've done this doctoral work and partnered with even with the Barna Group to understand how to communicate across generations, which is fantastic. We can’t wait to hear what you've learned.

So, when you did focus groups within your church, what did you learn about how the different generations felt about those and the other generations? You know, it's one thing to say, “How are we communicating with each other?” but how about with other generations? Were you surprised by your findings?

Darrell: That is a great question. I can't say I was surprised. What I think, more than anything, I was affirmed in the need for this investigative and formative work. So as I sat and listened, what I realized is that each generation was distinct, and they would give the same commendation for preaching for different reasons. And so noticing those differences, I think, put a responsibility on me as pastor to help explain those differences to the others.

The other thing that was interesting about how generations saw one another, I think that there was a tendency to generalize. There was an honest ignorance, but there was an overall love for people of different generations. And I found that in each one of the five groups. So, you know, when I say honest ignorance or it is the tendency to generalize, we would generalize, you know, older people, younger people, but not really knowing specifically who we were talking about, how they were shaped. And as a generational cohort, part of my line of questioning was if people acknowledged that the needs of people of other generations were different than their own, and I found that there was just a general ignorance over not even what the needs were, the fact that the needs were different. So they could acknowledge that there may be a different need, but they really did not know how to identify what those needs were. And I found that across the gamut. So not just Boomers not knowing what Xers and Millennials need, simultaneously Zers and Millennials not knowing what Boomers and Xers and Elders needed. So there was a general across-the-board ignorance to the specific needs of each group, but a love there and a willingness to learn what those needs might be.

Al: Oh, I love that. I mean, hopefully, in the church there is a love for our brothers and sisters of different generations. And that's where it really starts to break down those differences. But I can see as a pastor, as you're speaking to different generations, all sitting in the church at the same time, how helpful this would be.

And, you know, you make the case that we should really consider these different generations, people groups, and, you know, we talk in the faith about people groups and how this people group and that people group. Generally, we're talking about groups that have unique cultures or different locations. But you're saying we should consider these different generations people groups in the same way that these cross-generational missionaries talk about reaching people groups. So tell us about this. How does thinking about generations as people groups frame how we interact with each other in our churches, in our ministries, even in workplaces?

Darrell: Yeah. That's a great question. That's one of the biggest arguments I try to make in my thesis and my research and my point of view. And that's because, first of all, just a simple definition of people group is a group where there are no language and cultural barriers such that the message of the Gospel can easily permeate that group without running into or being stopped by those barriers. So when we hear the term people group, I agree with you, you know? Any time we read it or heard it or researched it, it's generally an ethnicity or a geopolitical boundary or, you know, a country of origin and view when we talk about it.

But borrowing from the simple definition that a people group is a group where a message can travel without language barriers and then identifying factors of a people group as its own culture and language, I borrow from that, and I apply that to generational cohorts; that is, people born during the same window of time. What I hope that helps us to do is to be missionaries to people of different ages, just as we would to people of different regions or countries or continents. And so that means we got to study their culture. You know, what shaped them? What are the unique factors and values of that culture? And one of the biggest parts of culture is language. And so whereas I would go on a mission trip, you know, I have to preach, and there will be a translator there. So I'll say one line of the sermon and have to wait for the translation. You know, we don't have that—

Al: I do that. I do that.

Darrell: You do that?

Al: And it takes twice as long. Yeah.

Darrell: Yeah. So you got to write half the sermon to preach—

Al: That’s right.

Darrell: —twice as long.

So, but yeah, but we don't have that benefit, you know, with generations. And we are just as estranged from people in our own homes, our own families, our own churches, who were born at a different time as we are estranged from, you know, people who live on the other side of the world.

Al: Yeah. Be missionaries of different ages. So there's a challenge for us, within our own churches, even within our own families. Yeah.

So, okay, Darrell. So I'm a Boomer, you know, you're a Millennial. Our generations are often cast in opposition to each other, you know, especially in the workplaces as we work together, even in churches, neighborhoods. I mean, in some ways there's this conflict, even. “Well, that's the way they do it,” or, you know, “This is the way they are.” And so what kind of postures or attitudes do we each need to develop, you know, as we become missionaries of different generations so that we not only co-exist, but actually that we can flourish together, and I like to think that we can actually love each other the way we should from a Christian perspective?

Darrell: Yeah. You know, to start where you ended, I agree that we can love each other the way we should from a Christian perspective, because I believe that love and also the unity of the Spirit and a bond of peace. I believe it's a phenomenon that the Holy Spirit makes possible for broken people. You know, Paul tells the church at Ephesians to protect the unity of the Spirit. He didn’t say to, you know, develop it or to, you know, go get it. It’s already given. Unity in the Spirit is a spiritual gift, you know, not in terms of our individual abilities, but in terms of a gift from God to local churches. And so the choices we make to honor one another above ourselves and to look out for the good of one another instead of the good of self, our love and action, and I believe, make that possible.

But you're right. So our generations are Boomers and Millennials are much maligned and usually pitted against each other, and for good reason, too. I think the simple reason is that ours are the largest two generations in American history. You know, it was first Boomers, and now it's Millennials. And the world had wrapped around Boomer culture, leadership, ideals, values, preferences, needs. And now that Millennials are on the scene and able to enter the work space and begin to ascend through certain ranks, there is this tension that is there. And so I think that your question about what do we need to exhibit? I think, first of all, our two generations must be the examples, not because Elders don't matter—those before the Boomers—not because Xers don't matter—those wedged between Millennials and Boomers—and not because Z and Alpha don't matter. They matter. But the sheer bigness of Boomers and Millennials means I believe there's a weight of responsibility for us to lead the way into generational unity.

And I think the way we do that is just some simple ways. The first way I would say is listening to understand, without feeling the need to agree. And that is not easy to do, especially in churches and in spaces where theological points of views are on the table of discussion. But I do think that unity is more possible when we listen to understand, and we don't listen to agree or force the other to agree, because that's a whole different posture. If I'm listening to agree, that means the minute I hear something I disagree with, I'm already formulating a counter argument because my goal is to win this debate. But if I'm listening to understand, my goal is just to love Al, getting to know him, getting to know how he sees the world, and appreciate how the Holy Spirit might use his unique perspectives to shape me into Christ. And when we come with that posture, there is a posture of humility, not the need to win the argument, but the desire to win the person. And I think if leaders of generations and people in spaces where there's an intergenerational presence and we set the Christlike example of listening to understand, I believe we can create a culture where people of different age groups and generations can get along better.

Al: Yeah. Yeah. Listen to understand—I love that, Darrell—and posture of humility, which is, of course, core to that, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Well, so, the meat of your research is systematically going through each living generation and helping us understand the type of communication that resonates with each one. And in general, the range from older to younger generation moves from an emphasis, it sounds, of propositional communication to relational communication. And I love, a friend of mine says it's all about relationships. So I'm anxious to learn about your view here. Can you give us a few examples of the best ways to connect and communicate as our listeners are interacting with each generation in the workplace? Give us some practical communication tips for each generation as we go through them.

Darrell: So, the research spanned five generations that have adult representation. So that starts with, you know, the Elders, or silent generation, you know, born before ‘45. And so that generation prefers preaching. So I use preaching as a specific type of communication to study those language preferences. Okay. So for that first, the older generation, the more propositional you can be—meaning direct, clear, unwavering in your point of view as a communicator—the more you can say what you’re going to say, say what you told them you were going to say, and then tell them, “I told you that's what I was going to say.” There’s not a lot of—

Al: That's what they taught me. That's what they taught me in speech class, Darrell.

Darrell: Yeah. But just the more direct you can be, the more prop—what I mean by propositional is make your point, make points about that point, and there is not really a need to deviate from the left or the right. There’s a clear direction, solid, unwavering communication.

For Boomers, I would take that as we move along the spectrum from the propositional end to the relational end, the next step over for Boomers is to be a little bit more what I define or describe as skeptical. And what I mean by that is a tease with an appreciation for propositional language. So Boomers appreciate just a little bit of edge in their communication. So C.S. Lewis’ trilemma of Christ is a great example of this. When he says, “Is Jesus either a liar, is He lunatic, or is He Lord?” You know, I mean, we know that C.S. Lewis believes Jesus is Lord and has confessed Him as such, but that tease of “liar and a lunatic” creates just this space of a little bit of open mindedness, a little bit of tease, a little bit of excitement, some suspense, even, that culminates in a propositional, clear, firm idea.

If you want to communicate with Xers, that's the group wedged between mine and yours. And the reason I say wedged is that they really are the smallest group stuck between the two biggest groups. And so Xers are those who were born between about ‘65 to about ’79, or early ‘80s, depending upon whose brackets you use. But this group is very intellectual, and the language for them is a language approving, defending, explaining research. Particularly if you're preaching or teaching or talking about something theological, anything you can leverage that is extrabiblical content can add credibility to the historical arguments or points that you're trying to make. So articulate, studied, well-prepared, thoughtful, intellectual language. This is the group that uses his brain to protect his heart. So anything you can do to stimulate the brain can help that group open their hearts to maybe appreciate or accept some of the things you're saying.

Moving further along and continuing to Millennials, which is, you know, my group, that's ‘80s and ‘90s babies, I describe our language as dialogical. So here's where it really begins to turn a little bit on its head from the tone of communication. For Millennials, the speaker has to sound like a listener. So we have to speak in a way that we acknowledge not just the intellectual capacity of the Millennial, but the free will and otherness of the Millennial. So whereas the problem, if I'm speaking to a group of older Boomers or Elders, I would say what I’m going to say; say, “This is what I said I was going to say;” and then say, “That’s what I said.”

With Millennials, I’m going to say, “Here's what I'm thinking. Here's how I'm feeling. I know this may sound crazy, and sometimes I even wonder. But if you would give me a minute to listen, I want you to consider some of the things I might share.” So that language is more of a dialogical language as if there's a give and take. But before I give, I have to be authentic in expressing what I've taken. So that's a range of topics, you know: politics, marriage, taxes, religion, sexuality, money, parenting, corporal punishment. So many different topics that divide us, the Millennial group wants to know that the communicator has first listened and at least can acknowledge where they have learned some things that they would previously probably disagree with. And then ask, “Would you give me a few minutes to just share from my heart? Would you consider, would you think out loud with me?” that type of deal.

And then, that next step on this continuum to what I define as relational language with Zers is this language where I am more human than I am authoritative. See, the propositional communicator can communicate from a place of authority. They don’t have to necessarily be, they don't have to humanize themselves to connect well. They can just be right about what they're talking about. Whereas, the Zer, if you're trying to communicate with a group full of Zers—this is, you know, late ‘90s babies to the middle to 2012, so about ‘99 to 2012—for that group my humanity must be apparent, not my authority. And so relational language is a language where it’s person to person, and I have, in a sense, divested myself of any privilege that would give me hierarchical authority over them.

So, for example, my Gen Z sons. Not that I cease to be their father or make that clear, but depending upon what we're talking about, I'm willing to listen and be human about how I felt when I was eight years old or 12 years old, or even how I feel today, you know, as daddy.

Al: I trust you’re enjoying our podcast today. We’ll be right back after an important word for leaders.

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Al: Welcome back with Pastor Darrell Hall.

Darrell: That’s the short of it.

Al: Oh, Darrell, my mind is just turning, and I know our listeners’ are, too, just the way we have experienced in our workplace, in the communities that we're in. Yeah. Just start with the silent generation and preaching and Boomers, you know, kind of have a little tease, you know, to create an edge in the conversation with Xers; the intellectual stimulation and how that is important with Millennials to come from the standpoint that you're a listener; and then, again, the human view for Xers. So for a silent generation, the position of pastor has a lot of weight and value and authority. Whereas, what you're saying is for the Zers, being a pastor, you know, that's not in itself, that position, be authoritative. Got to sound much more authentic and human. So I mean, just going from the—oh, boy. Yeah. Just a lot of different conversations. Again, as I think about in the ‘70s taking speech classes, you know, “Well, tell them what you're going to tell them. Tell them. Tell them what you told them,” you know? And then, yet I had a kind of an Xer pastor and was very intellectual, bringing in in a research from extra-biblical content. But having Boomers say, “No, no. We want the Bible. That’s all we want. Don’t bring in any of that extra-biblical content.” I mean, those are the kind of conflicts that we see not only in the workplace but in our church as well. That's a great conversation and very helpful. So, yeah, going from, you know, to being relational as we speak. Yeah.

So, Darrell, this has been great. So you make a distinction between being multigenerational versus intergenerational. So help clarify that for our listeners. So what's the benefit of being intergenerational in a church or a Christian ministry? And how can leaders effectively lead an intergenerational organization? What qualities do we need to embrace as leaders to be effective in communicating in this environment?

Darrell: Yes. That's a great question. This is one of those thoughts that I wrestle with, whether or not I was splitting hairs or being too particular in my word choice. But, you know, I am convicted by the idea that there is a difference between multi and intergenerational. In short, multigenerational is when there may be multiple generations present within an organization, but the power, the brain trust, the decision making, and the cultural influence is usually held by one generation, maybe two.

So multigenerational, for example, let's say church, is there may be a presence of people born at different times, but everybody sitting at the table where the decisions for where money, resources, time and planning is all determined, all those people are born within the same generation or maybe two. So if the senior pastor is a Baby Boomer and all the high-level staff around him are Boomers and everybody on the board of trustees are Boomers, regardless of who's in, you know, in the audience, that's really a Boomer-led, multi-generational church.

An intergenerational organization, by contrast, is one where there is equitable—not equal, but equitable—representation for each generation that is either currently present in the constituency, client base, or congregation, or that that group of leaders hopes to be present. So it starts with an equitability, okay?

Al: So what would equitably look like, Darrell?

Darrell: So, yeah. Great question. So a practical application for equitability is, if there's a board of trustees, there are people from at least three to four of the adult generations who are represented, who are on that board of trustees or board of elders or what have you, obviously qualified to be there—no token seats in the name of equitability—but there is an intentional plurality, so to speak, of ages that are allowed to be in leadership positions.

Another practical application of equitability is, let's say if you have an organization where, you know, the reality is everybody in leadership is either Boomers or Xers, but you want to be equitable. I think that group makes a step by bringing in either some consultation for how to better reach another generation. They use focus groups to study and listen to the few in their organization they may have from that generation. They intentionally seek out knowledge and allow that knowledge to influence decisions that they make. And so I think it's possible for a Boomer to appreciate Millennial sensibilities. But in order for that Boomer to do that, that requires self-challenge. It’s not something he’ll just stumble upon. It’s love for Christ and love for neighbor that translates to seeking information, crucify my perspective and point of view, and the willingness to acknowledge a point of view that could attract someone of another age. So I do think it’s possible for people in one group to lead with equity considering other groups. But that is going to require a challenge and some very clear steps taken to challenge their own sensibilities.

Al: Yeah. And what you're saying, look back to your earlier point, listen to understand. In order to listen, you have to ask, right?

Darrell: Mm-hmm. You have to ask with openness.

Al: Yeah. Yeah.

Darrell: Ask. Also, here's another key factor I would say. You asked about what type of leadership, particularly if the leader is older and they are seeking the insight or to learn from people who are younger, the leader has to have humility to ask, to learn, to understand. Also, it must be clear that there is no fear of loss for any honesty that may be shared or any different point of view that may be shared, because what fear of loss causes people to do is to not be open and transparent. So if you are a very authoritative or autocratic or senior entrenched leader with years and years of experience and authority and all of these great things that God has done through you, try your best to divest yourself of that. It's almost like the show Undercover Boss, you know. It’s an example of that. If only for a moment to learn what's going on at lower levels of your organization, you almost have to divorce yourself of all the things that you've been able to build up, not because they aren't important, but because people are more important. And creating a space where there is no fear of loss, you can generally learn, understand, and then take that new understanding back to the authority position that God has given you and that you’re a good steward over.

Al: Yeah. As our listeners will recognize, I always focus on 1 Peter 5:2 for leaders, and that is that shepherd the flock that God has entrusted to you. And in order to shepherd, we're saying, “This is exactly the kind of thing we're looking for.” We need leaders to be listeners to be open to ask and to understand those that they're leading. That's fantastic.

Well, Darrell, this is, I mean, we could go on and on just to reflect from our perspectives. You know, we represent the two biggest generations, no question. And I've been a great admirer, I'll say, personally for all that the Millennials are bringing to the workplace. I've been in workshops, Christian workshops, where, you know, we talk about culture, and a Boomer leader will say, “Well, you know, I'm just having trouble because I can't get Millennials who are going to, you know, willing to, you know, do whatever.” And they go on and on, you know. And it's like, well, yeah, it's different. And you need to approach these issues and these generations differently. Yeah.

So thinking about what we've talked about, you know, originally start about, well, let's talk about, you know, these generations as people groups, like, we would. And I like it where you define it as a people group is where the message can travel, that they understand each other, the culture, the way they think that it can travel without barriers. That was really insightful. And then, you know, again, you talked about the most important thing is to be able to listen, to understand, without the need to agree, but at least make unity where possible. And of course, each of us should have a posture of humility as we're talking across generations. And then, your five-generation summary I thought was really something we could grasp, you know, how that silent generation likes preaching. You know, “Okay, I'm going to tell you what I'm going to say. I'm going to, you know, how many points there are. I'm going to tell, and then I'm going to tell you. Then, I'm going to tell you what I told you.” I mean, you know, I just loved that summary. And also, you know, for Boomers to have the little tease involved and how effective that works. Xers, it’s the intellectual stimulation. For Millennials, it's the, you know, the need to be a listener, and the tone is so important, and, “Here's how I'm thinking. So give me a chance to share,” really, really informative. I'm thinking of my own children in this case, even. And then, we've talked about some examples of how if on a board, can you have multiple generations? You should have multiple generations. I mean, we've talked a lot about ethnicity but also generations. Or if in a leadership team, if you're mostly a Boomer leadership team, which we see over and over again, so how are you listening and bringing in representation to understand the group? What we do at Best Christian Workplaces, we measure for engagement. We want engagement in all levels in the organization. And of course, engagement comes through good communication and in understanding each other.

So this has really been a great conversation, Darrell. Thanks so much.

Is there anything you'd like to add that we've talked about now that we've gotten to this point in the conversation? Usually, our guests have a growing conviction that they want to say with and speak to our audience.

Darrell: Yes. Well, first of all, you know, I was glad to be here. I've enjoyed as well, you know, just being able to think out loud with you. I think my parting words would be to be encouraged. I hoped to write the book in an encouraging way about each generation and for readers of all generations so that it wouldn't be obvious, you know, bias of a Millennial defending Millennial culture. That is not at all the approach or the spirit in which I wrote it. So I'm saying to anyone who may feel a conviction or a weight after hearing our conversation today to leave this podcast with encouragement, with a sense of hopefulness, that regardless of your life experiences, your age, or wherever you find yourself from an emerging leader to an entrenched leader, that it is possible to learn how to communicate effectively across generations. And all of us have a gap to close. So whether it is silent and Boomers trying to close that gap down, or whether it is the Z leaders or leaders like myself, Millennials, we're trying to close that gap. But I am just as much a missionary to Baby Boomers in my congregation and community as I would encourage a Baby Boomer leader to be to Millennials and Zers and their congregation or community. So be encouraged. You know, it is possible. And whatever effort—I’ll end with this, Al—whatever effort we expend to better understand and serve people of a different age group is worth it for the glory of God and for the beauty of a healthy interaction. It’s worth it. It’s going to take some effort. It's going to be some uncomfortable moments. Going to be some ego checks. There’s going to be some cross bearing. We’re really going to have to crucify some of our preferences. But it is worth it for the glory of God and for the other good of our neighbor.

Al: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and strength; and love your neighbor as yourself. And this is an example. So be a missionary—love it, Darrell—yeah, be a missionary to other generations.

Well, thanks so much for your contributions today. I also want to remind our listeners the name of your book, Speaking across Generations. And I think you will want to go out and get a copy of it. And it's published by the Best Christian Workplace InterVarsity Press. So most of all, again, Darrell, thanks for your commitment to reaching all generations with the Good News of Christ and particularly in the context of the local church. I love your story, and I'd love to hear more from you in the future. So thanks for taking your time out today and speaking into the lives of so many listeners across all generations.

Darrell: Yes, sir. Thank you.

Al: Thank you so much for listening to my conversation with Darrell. And I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did.

And you can always find ways to connect with him and links to everything we discussed in the show notes and the transcript at workplaces.org/podcast.

And if you have any suggestions for me about the podcast and have any questions on flourishing workplace cultures, please email me at al@workplaces.org. That’s al@workplaces.org.

And leaders, would you help us achieve our goal to see 1,000 flourishing Christian-led workplaces in the year 2030? And we think that would create a huge difference in the health of the Body of Christ. So to help, please share this podcast with another leader or launch a project in your organization to discover and improve the health of your workplace culture. If you're interested in learning more, go to workplaces.org to request a sample report.

Outro: The Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast is sponsored by Best Christian Workplaces. If you need support building a flourishing workplace culture, please visit workplaces.org for more information.

We'll see you again next week for more valuable content to help you develop strong leaders and build a flourishing workplace culture.

Al: And you're going to want to join us next week with my conversation with Al Erisman, the chairman of the Theology of Work Project. At your request, we are going to talk about the intersection between faith and work. I look forward to having you join us next week.