Transcript: The Leaders Who Stay Stuck Already Know Their Blind Spots // Amy Clark, Growth Minded Leadership

Amy: The interesting thing is like I – you know in talking with some leaders, it’s like, “Oh, I’m self-aware. I know what I do wrong. This is just me.” Okay. That is like 20% of awareness. Self-awareness is identifying where you need to be better. The hard part of it is saying, “Do I want to be better?”, number one, and if I do, “What do I need to do?”

Narrator: This is the Called to Flourish podcast, where leaders and cultures grow.

Robert: Hello and welcome to the Called to Flourish podcast, where leaders and cultures grow. My name is Robert Wachter. I am your host today. I am also the Vice President Sales and Marketing here at Best Christian Workplaces. Today we have a special guest, a first-time guest, named Amy Clark. Amy, welcome to the podcast today.

Amy: Thank you. Pleasure to be here with you today.

Robert: Pleasure to have you, Amy. So just for our audience, Amy is a leadership strategist, an executive coach, and a best-selling author. She’s written a book, Growth Point, and also most recently published February 2026 the book, Unseen Leadership. You’ll want to go check that book out, Unseen Leadership. Amy’s also a Chief Human Resources Office, and she has a company called Growth Minded Group. This is a consultancy that partners with senior leaders and organizations to develop self-aware, high-impact leaders. Through coaching, framework, strategic development, they help leaders navigate complex issues, create cultures where employees feel valued, and performance thrives and there is greater outcome, as we all know. So, I’m excited to talk with Amy and glean some of her insights on inspirational leadership, and we want to focus on self-awareness today and how leaders shape healthy cultures by being self-aware. Leadership isn’t just about what you do. It’s about what’s going on internally, who you are and how that manifests itself in leadership. So, Amy, I’m going to kick it over to you, and I’d love to explore this concept of this inner life of inspirational leadership. Influence begins beneath the surface. I think these are some of the concepts that you touch on related to identity, motivations, those kinds of things, spiritual formation, so I’d love to get your thoughts, you know. How are leaders today performing versus actually leading from an internal place?

Amy: Yeah, when we think about it, okay, the most important leadership moments, or even the most challenging ones, are the ones where no one’s watching, no one’s seeing, you know what’s happening, right, and you know when I think of my experiences, because you know all that I write about and coach and teach leaders about comes from the world experience I’ve had, and just being in a room with leaders who all looked so confident, put together, certain in what they were saying, and I would sit there in awe. I’m like, “How do they do that?”, and then question myself, and you know when we think about the inner work of a leader, certainly it is knowing yourself and to me there isn’t two separate identities here, right. You have your identity of life, of you, what you believe in, that connects to who you are as a leader of people, as a leader of something that you believe in, and I think often what happens is people feel like I have to be this certain way in business and this certain at home or with my faith community, whatever those things are, and that is where we often get stuck and it feels awkward because it felt so awkward to me, like I can’t show the real me because I’m seeing – I’m not seeing that with everybody else. It was almost like robotic almost in looking at leaders around me. Okay, they obviously are doing this right because they’re at the level I want to be and so I’ve got to figure out how to do that that way, and so quite often I think we try to separate our identities instead of thinking about how they can come together as one.

Robert: Yes. Yes. Kind of compartmentalizing who I’m supposed to be in this setting, who I’m supposed to be in this leadership setting, and really bringing that together because it’s based on identity. Yeah. You know, I think about that. I think it’s actually very prevalent in many different Christian circles, at least that I personally experience, where it seems like there’s often an expectation of what you’re supposed to say or how you’re supposed to present yourself and it can come across as maybe less genuine and so I love that idea of it starts internally, and I think about, you know, the idea of kind of our Christian walk. Like legalism is an external performance. It’s striving. It’s human strength. It’s looking good on the outside, as Jesus talked about, and whereas true faith is based on the new identity that we are, our new spiritual identity, this new creation, so we’re living from a place of who we are, not of how we’re trying to perform, or walking it out comes from a real place of inner transformation. Does that kind of align what you’re talking about with leadership?

Amy: It does, and yet, it’s really hard for people to figure out how to do that, you know. When we think of how we – you know how you grow up, I like to say, in my career, you know, we start off and we get all this experience and this expertise and it feels good because we’re relied up. We’re the go-to for answers, and all of a sudden, we become this leader of people and nobody really teaches us what that requires, and so when we think about the inner part, okay, we are all born with instincts, you know, all the things that we are just – the wonderful thing that happens when we come to life, right, and the instinct to protect ourselves for survival, you know, and sometimes it causes us to avoid something, like you were saying, you know. I think I need to say what’s expected versus what’s true, you know, and so all of that comes from this instinctive feeling to protect ourselves and so that aligns with, as we go from all this expertise and experience into leading people towards something that is bigger than ourselves, we start to lean on that because that’s what has made us successful so far. That’s what’s got us where we are, and when that happens, we start to disconnect from ourselves and the people around us. We do that because, you know, we start to give the answer, give the direction, and we have a group of people that are just following the marching orders, but are they growing along with it? Can they do that without you? We all have a responsibility to prepare those around us to continue without us and/or continue beyond the conversation, and so, I think that is the most critical responsibility of a leader, is letting go of what it is for you and can this move on without you? Because it is that important. And so I think, you know, all of that comes or is so difficult because we’re measured on results. We’re measured on the visible and the most important leadership things happen and it’s not visible. You know, it’s the layers.

Robert: Right. You mentioned something, because I’d love to lean into something specific, and I think you kind of, maybe that letting go, as somebody progresses into more influence and leadership, they may start out as a very effective technician, kind at a technician level, but then all of a sudden they’re leading people, which is a whole different thing that can be learned and is not always necessarily natural, but you’re talking about that letting go. Is that one of the areas where you see leaders based on some internal conflict or internal fear or something that just hasn’t been – they’re not aware of, they haven’t developed it yet, that is causing them to cling to or give orders versus letting go, empowering, you know, creating success, sort of thing? Is that one of the things that you see is a stumbling block for, I guess, emerging leaders, or any leader, that you referenced?

Amy: It absolutely is, and you know why? Because you know I think we all like to be validated and that we’re doing a good job, people like us, and that we’re well known for our craft, you know, whether it’s the knowledge, the technical pieces, and when you think about the years, okay, that brought you to where you are, right, all the expertise you have, it feels good, and then all of a sudden you’re in this new role, and you’re like, what does this require of me now? And you know, you start to realize this is harder than it used to be. But we cling to those things because again it’s known, it’s validated, it feels good, and that is what I call the “edge of familiarity.” You know, when you think about all the things we know, we’re in the familiar, it’s less load on us cognitively because we can just move, we’re problem solvers, we’re getting things done, and when we stay before, you know, if we don’t cross that edge, what we are doing is we’re denying ourselves the opportunity to grow into something different and the people around us too, but letting go is a hard thing to do because we worked so hard on it and we’re proud of it, and what I want to be clear, it’s not forgetting what you know. It’s not that you’re never, ever going to use it again. What your expertise and experience does for you now as a people leader, it gives you all this wisdom that you can present opportunities to people, questions to people, and you can get a dialogue going so they’re coming up with the answers are, they’re coming up with what the plan is, and you’re using all of that you have in just a different way. It doesn’t mean you forget it and you’re not using it. It’s just a different way, and so I think once people, and I’ve seen people see those opportunities a little bit at a time, you know, they start to understand, you know, okay, this is the impact I’m here to make and this is why they put me in the role I’m in.

Narrator: Leading well starts with listening well. At Best Christian Workplaces, our Employee Engagement Survey helps you collect honest, anonymous feedback from your staff so you can lead with clarity. When you understand what drives team engagement, you retain top talent, increase productivity, reduce turnover, and uncover cost savings. We equip Christian leaders with research-driven insight to strengthen culture and lead with purpose. Because when your people flourish, your mission impact multiples. Visit workplaces.org to learn more today.

Robert: So, let’s talk about self-awareness with that, because I think that’s the – that’s the big thing for everybody is we don’t know what we don’t know, and if there is a lack of self-awareness or emotional intelligence, that really is essential for leadership, inspirational leadership. I guess that begs the question, you know, how can leaders understand their strengths or even their blind spots so they can build deeper trust with their team? What are some ways that you see that being effective in identifying, “Okay, I’m aware of this. This is an area of focus for me as a leader. This is an internal issue that is creating something externally that is not as productive as I would like it to be.” How do we identify those things? How do we become self-aware of those areas of lack in our leadership?

Amy: Yeah. You know, and there are two areas that I like to focus for me and for other people I’ve seen is the reflection and insight. Okay. So, first when we talk about insight, insight from others, and I tell people, ask people. Like you know, “What am I doing well? What do you see that I do that stands out for you that is most useful? Okay, that is most useful in what you’re trying to do or what our company is trying to do, and so that’s one thing that taps into the strengths that you have, you know. And where do you see that I have some opportunity? And it just can have one thing and you start to ask people that and you look at that and you say, okay, because it’s not just about what I think I need to work on, it’s about the people around me that are counting me. How do they see that? And so, when people ask those two simple questions, and it doesn’t have to be this big thing. Now there are 360 formal reviews, all of these things that you can do, yes, but what I love about this, it creates connection between two people and it builds trust, and now that these perhaps five people have told you something and you have a theme, now you can say to them, “You know what, I heard you and this is interesting because I’ve been thinking about this too and I know I want to work on how I’m presenting myself, you know and how I communicate, to be more succinct, and I could use your help.” So, when we’re in that moment, when I’m doing it, I may ask you, “How did I do?” and then you reflect and so that’s the insight. Then you reflect. Did I do my best to be succinct here? And I don’t feel like I did my best, what was it that came up for me? So, it’s insights from others and then a reflection of that and this is based on one of my favorite authors, by the way, Marshall Goldsmith. If you know if him, he wrote the book, What Got You Here Won’t Get You There, and in his teachings it was part of this, you know building connections with others, so you build it with yourself and you become more self-aware. The interesting thing is like I – you know in talking with some leaders, it’s like, “Oh, I’m self-aware. I know what I do wrong, and this is just me.” Okay. That is like 20% of awareness. Self-awareness is identifying where you need to be better. The hard part of it is saying, “Do I want to be better?”, number one, and if I do, “What do I need to do? What’s my responsibility?” So it’s not enough to say, “That’s just who I am.” We have to be thinking about the impact we have on people that count on us, and so those are the – those are a couple of ways in which, you know, I think are most beneficial because it really, again, it brings us connection that you otherwise wouldn’t have.

Robert: I couldn’t agree more. Those conversations, I think, sometimes leaders, it does take a sense of courage, I guess, in terms of, “Hey, I do really want to know. I want to get better.” There really does need to be a true desire to want to get better because otherwise you don’t really want to expose yourself to the truth of what others would say about you, right, and so you have to be willing to subject yourself to truth and shining the light on your leadership by asking those questions. And I like that you mentioned, it’s not just, “What can I do better?” but it’s, “What I am doing that is energizing you?” so you get a sense of your strengths and also a sense of you know areas for improvement, but I just would want to encourage leaders, be willing to immerse yourself into that space of allowing others, people who may be not – sometimes we – “Hey, I’ve got this trusted mentor and I want this trusted mentor to speak into my life.” But we’re not talking about a trusted mentor. We’re talking about people who report to you, people who you are leading and allowing them to have that voice of speaking into, you know, your leadership because that’s where it’s really happening and that’s where I think you can really get those insights. I think that’s an encouragement to leaders. You have to want that and be willing and it’s truly – because it’s not always the easiest thing. It’s not always the funnest thing. It’s not always like, “Oh, hey, I want to wake up today and find out how I’m not meeting the mark or how I’m you know . . .” But at the end of the day, that “have to” becomes a “want to” and “get to” because ultimately we want to be better leaders and we want to the outcome of our leadership and the organizations and – of the work that we’re doing to have the full impact that it can have. So, you know you mentioned there are tools out there. There’s coaching out there. There’s a lot of ways to do that. You had mentioned, just have a conversation as well, which is a great approach to getting insight and reflection on those insights, so I love that. I think that’s really, really sound, basic, fundamental – so practical it seems almost too easy, too simple, but sometimes those are the most effective approaches and so I love the idea of also, you know, this idea of caring, caring for people and how, I guess, practical ways leaders can inspire through humility and compassion. This is something we talk about a lot of Best Christian Workplaces with inspirational leadership. It’s being humble, consistent, compassionate, clearly communicating, having genuine care, which does result in people feeling that trust and feeling more valued and then they become more engaged. So I guess, what does it look like when leaders say they care, but it’s not truly modeled that way?

Amy: It’s – it’s words on a wall, like what we value, and we’re not practicing those, right, and so that’s the critical thing, you know. You know we hear words and actions need to connect, and so I think what happens is when people say, “Yeah, we care. We care about your development. We care about what’s happening outside of your life here at work.” And then when you have a moment of something outside of work you need to attend to, then all of a sudden we’re saying “Well, we kind of really need you here.” Right, and -and your – you know, and as a leader you’re thinking in the mind of “Man, we have all these things we need to get to and these results we need to – we need to have, you know, by the end of the month. I can’t go without this person.” So, you automatically go into this mode of, “We really need you. Okay, well if you’re going to be off, how do you plan on covering this?” Right. It’s doesn’t come – and oftentimes people look at you like – it’s like, you know, they’re really being really a difficult, difficult boss to me, you know, and this is – this is just awful, you know, and like clearly, and just naming all the things they feel about this person and what’s important to remind yourself of is we’re not in our own experience – the other’s experience - rather, we’re in our own. And care, for me, it looks like empathy and that someone else’s situation is not about me. I am not the point. They are the point. How do I meet them in the experience they are in right now? I know I need them five steps ahead and I can push them to get there, but that is not going to help. How can I meet them where they are to get them where we need them to be? And you know oftentimes I find leaders – because we’re just not patient, we want results, and we just want to move, get something done, and move on, and we’re working with human beings. We’re a human being, and it takes, you know, conversation, understanding, to really help someone move along something that is challenging for them. And so that’s where – where I see it get in the rush of things, in the pressure of results, and all the uncertainty we face in business and in life, all that’s going on globally, we all have things that we’re carrying, and it’s important to remember that, that you know, it’s all good intentions. Put yourself in the place of others before you, around, take a pause.

Robert: Very, very, very good – good insights there. You know, as I’m listening to everything and we’re wrapping up here because we’re running out of time, I’d love to just keep, keep going and going and going, because these insights are really, really good, you know. Is it safe to say at the end of the day that leadership is less about leadership skills and more about leadership awareness?

Amy: Oh, yes. Yes. How we think, you know, and how we use what’s coming to us and yes, and I think that’s where development of leaders gets stuck. I think if there’s more of this, let’s talk about in the moment and what is happening, and what you’re perhaps not seeing. What are you leaning towards that something else could be true to that situation as well? You’re spot on with that. Yes.

Robert: Yep. And that’s what I’ve gleaned from this conversation with you. I want – I just want to encourage our audience, you know, whatever position you’re in, in leadership position, there’s been a little bit of emphasis on, hey, now I’m in this position, I’m in this role, and especially if you’re kind of new or - to leading people, to just lean into this, to start internally and think about, you know, what are your motivators? What – are you working from a sense of identity in Christ, seeing the people around you as complex individuals with passions and fears and all the same human variables that we all carry and making sure we’re approaching them and listening to them as they – as we open that two-way communication of hey, I want to hear, how am I doing in terms of my leadership? How am I inspiring you? How am I causing, you know, your experience in my leadership to not be as fruitful as it could be? And then reflecting on that. Right. Responding to that as we become more self-aware. I think this is just great practical insight. So be encouraged as a leader. Continue to lean into these, these ideas and these concepts and these principles. Amy, I’d love to share with the audience how they can learn more about you, where they can go to connect with you if they’d like to do that.

Amy: Yeah. Thank you. You can go to unseenleadership.com - so the title of my book - unseenleadership.com. You can learn more about the book, about me, and where to get it. I am also very active on LinkedIn so you can follow me there. I share a lot of my thoughts and experiences in practical ways like we’ve talked about today.

Robert: Alright, unseenleadership.com. That’s where they can – that’s where they can access and learn more about you, your book. Also find Amy Clark on LinkedIn. Follow her. Connect with her there, as she mentioned, and hey, we’re excited. I want to encourage you as a listener, if this has been helpful to you, share this episode with somebody, with a colleague, a friend, a loved one, just somebody you think would be encouraged by this, maybe who’s newer in leadership but wants to grow in leadership. Share this out so we can get the word out and inspire and encourage and equip more and more leaders to grow and lead their organizations and people well. Well, God bless you, Amy. Thank you so much for being on the podcast.

Amy: God bless you. Thank you.

Robert: Absolutely. We’ll have to have you back again.

Amy: I’d love that.

Robert: We’d love that. Absolutely. So, we’ll see you all next time on the Called to Flourish podcast. God bless you.