Transcript: How to Produce a Culture with a High Level of Trust and Commitment // Dana Rasic, Bethesda Associates

The Flourishing Culture Podcast

“How to Produce a Culture with a High Level of Trust and Commitment“

September 21, 2020

Dana Rasic

Intro: As we progress through this pandemic, how are you shepherding the employees God has entrusted to you? In today's episode, we hear from the CEO of a large, diverse ministry share how they are demonstrating care for their outstanding talent.

Al Lopus: Welcome to another episode of the Flourishing Culture Podcast, where our goal is to equip and inspire you to build a flourishing workplace. As we all face today's leadership challenges as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic, we believe having a healthy culture is more important now than ever before. We are here to help you eliminate toxicity, improve your employees’ engagement, speed up new innovation, and grow your organization's impact.

And before we meet our guest today, I urge you to subscribe to this podcast. As a result, you’ll receive our action guide. It’s our gift to help you lead your organization’s culture to the next level. To subscribe, simply go to bcwinstitute.org/podcast. Hit the Subscribe button, and receive our free action guide.

If you can share this podcast with others, and rate it, it would mean a lot to me. Thank you.

And now, let's meet today's special guest.

The story my guest is about to share has a huge potential upside. It's a story that speaks of the number one challenge every organization, every workplace culture, and every leader is facing right now. And for nearly 60 years, Bethesda has been offering faith-based care to seniors, and then reinvesting their net income and net revenue to support missionary endeavors around the world. So, based in Colorado Springs, Bethesda operates more than 21 senior-living facilities in 18 communities throughout the country. And their culture challenges speak to innovative strategies and some remarkable successes. And here to talk about it is Dana Rasic, the chief executive officer of Bethesda Associates. And Dana, have I set the bar high enough in introducing you and Bethesda?

Dana Rasic: Well, thank you, Al. Yes, you definitely have set the bar high. I just hope that we can live up to that. And let me tell you just a little bit more about our organization umbrella. We do operate a senior-living company, just as you've described, those 21 senior-living facilities in those 18 communities around the country. But in addition to that, we operate an international child-development outreach called One Child, serving about 40,000 children in 14 countries. We operate a small radio-broadcasting company, and we do some real-estate investing in commercial office buildings as well. So with each of these different outreaches and businesses, you can imagine that blending the different employment cultures in the workplace can be a bit of a challenge.

Al: Yeah, wow. Well, and Dana, it's really great to have you with us today, and thanks for carving out this time, especially in this busy season that we have as we're opening up a little more with the COVID-19 crisis.

So, let's set the table with a word-association exercise. In this time of COVID-19, what are the three most-common things people say when you hear the words senior-living community?

Dana: That can be a tough one. Everybody has a different view or a different set of concerns. But the first word that comes to mind is care, so care for those residents that are living with us 24 hours a day and 365 days a year. But beyond care for the residents, care for the staff, who are providing that care for the residents. Probably the second word that would come to mind is concern. It really is about safety for those residents. How do we create that bubble of safety for them? And then if you talk to anybody that's actually in the industry, they will say difficult. The operating with all of the additional governmental requirements and regulations related to COVID-19, it's a very different operating environment than we've ever seen before.

Al: And reporting numbers. I mean, a whole new level of difficulty and kind of burden, isn’t there. Yeah.

So, Dana, what are the key factors to providing a flourishing environment for the staff? You mentioned your concerns not only for the residents, but also the staff and, therefore, the seniors you serve at Bethesda Senior Living facilities. What are some of your concerns?

Dana: Well, Al, I think the first is trust and transparency. It's that open and honest communication that we have, both with our employees, with our residents, and with the resident family members. And it's not just about telling the good story about how good we as an organization are or how good we think we are. But it's also sharing that bad or that hard news as well. It's talking about the realities of the circumstances that we face. So I think trust and transparency is the first thing that I would talk about as a flourishing environment.

Secondly, we really do strive to help our team members maintain a healthy life balance. The demands on our team have expanded exponentially during this COVID season and how we are adjusting for those employees who are parents who have kids at home now that they’re home schooling and they might not be able to meet in person. It's what type of technologies can we provide to cut down on travel for our operating teams, yet allow the operations team and the nurses team to really kind of rally the troops during this event and all this ever-changing regulatory environment.

And then it comes back to providing that routine encouragement for the team and the managers that are out there in the field. It's small, written communications. It can be a video communication to them that we just send out in a blast email. Those are some of the ways that we're helping to encourage this flourishing workplace environment today.

Al: Yeah. Boy, that’s fantastic, yeah. And that starts with trust and transparency. There's no question about that.

Even before COVID-19 hit back in March, what things were you doing about your workplace culture that concerned you the most? What kept you up at night, thinking back way back then because the world has changed?

Dana: All those months ago.

Al: Yeah.

Dana: It seems like, for me, the one that kept me up at night was the ability to attract and to retain talent. Our scores would indicate that we do pretty well at this. They've increased over the last year or two, and we're above most of the sector averages in this area. But it takes a constant effort. We have to be intentionally focused on attracting and retaining that talent.

The second probably is our ability to provide quality training for that talent, for that staff that we hire. And I'm not really talking just about the training as it relates to their job duties, but also or possibly even more important, training about the company culture. In the senior-living business, we use the word SERVANT to kind of describe our core values, and those are stewards of life, enrichment, respect, virtuous, advocacy, nurturing, and togetherness.

Al: So you’re using the word SERVANT as the acronym to really describe your company culture. And so you probably have orientation programs, other kind of trainings that focus on that. Yeah.

Dana: We absolutely do, yeah. We have taken great strides in our onboarding process to start to initiate the employment experience. We've begun a process with an onboarding process that really allows us to ingrain the servant motto and those core values from day one.

Al: That’s great. That's great. So, yeah, the ability to attract and retain, and then provide the training, not only the technical training, but you've really been intentional about defining your culture and communicating. I love the acronym SERVANT for that. That's fantastic.

Well, of course, the question leaders always ask is, how would I know if my concerns are true unless my employees spoke up and said so? And what made you decide to get objective data about your workplace culture through the BCWI Employee Engagement Survey, Dana?

Dana: You know, it probably starts with leadership bias for us. As leaders we’re committed to the mission of the organization. We think we lead well and run a high-quality, good organization. But how do we know if our perspective is true with the staff who are actually out there doing it day to day? And so we wanted a form of a survey that would allow for authentic and transparent feedback. And it really took a couple of years, honestly, for our group to trust the anonymity of the Survey and understand that the use of the results is a tool for leadership, but we weren't really looking for the “gotcha,” to go out there and find out who responded a certain way on the Survey.

Al: That’s a key aspect that we really kind of hang our service on. It is anonymous, and it does take a couple of years to prove that that's true and it's not a “gotcha.” You're absolutely right.

Well, you know, three years ago, you got some tremendous, valuable, honest feedback from your employees, and that revealed that, well, a little more than half of your employees were engaged in their work. How did that land with you originally, Dana?

Dana: Initially, I thought, well, you know, that's pretty good. Half the team is engaged, and that's probably pretty good when we compare it to other organizations. But as I spent time or we as a leadership team spent time really looking at the data and talking with the team, we realized that nearly that same amount of people were neutral or even disengaged. And from my perspective, our work is just too important for our teams to just view it as a job or as a paycheck. You know, in the Bible, James 1:27 says that religion that God, our Father, accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their time of distress. And that verse goes on a little further. But, you know, our organization is built to specifically serve both the orphan and the widow, and that's what we do every day. So if God considers it important enough to include it in His instruction in the Bible, then a faith-based organization like ours, caring for the elderly is something each of us should be really passionate about, not neutral about, but really passionate about.

Al: And as a result, what's the takeaway lesson you and your leadership team learned after that first Survey?

Dana: Well, for us, the takeaway on that—Al, the takeaway for us in that is getting people more involved in the training of the company culture. It's not just about the duty that they have to their role or their responsibility, but really having them understand how important it is to provide quality, faith-based care to the seniors we care for every day.

Al: And you’ve already touched on your organizational model, which is unique and one that I really admire, and it seems to work quite well for you. So how important is it that your staff and your seniors know that a portion of your net operating profits actually fund a child-sponsorship ministry?

Dana: You know, Al, for our group, that is our founding purpose. We were created as a business for benevolence model 60 years ago, and this meaningful purpose is why we do what we do today. Again, it's a biblical mission to care for widows and orphans.

So I’ll give me a little example from an annual meeting that we had with a group of our senior-living leaders, and we brought in all of our department managers. And I had an opportunity at that meeting to speak to our maintenance staff, which is rare for me. Rarely do we have the opportunity to have them all together in one place. So I took a short survey of just raised hands, and I asked the question why they started working for Bethesda. And for the clear majority, it was because they needed a job. No special calling to senior living or any other area for that matter. They just needed to pay the bills. And then I asked the question why they stayed working for Bethesda Senior Living Communities when they could likely make a little more money somewhere else. The clear majority are commit to staying at Bethesda because they consider themselves on mission for profitable care for the widows so that we can support the care of orphans and kids living in poverty around the world through One Child.

Al: So they come for a job. You know, we can understand that. But it really does help retention because of that lifegiving sense of the work that you're doing.

I trust you're enjoying our podcast today. We'll be right back after an important word for leaders.

Female: As we come through the COVID-19 crisis, leaders everywhere are asking, how do we understand the tensions our employees are experiencing coming back to work? How do we keep our employees engaged, hold on to our best talent, and position ourselves to thrive as an organization going forward? If you're looking for a way forward, the Best Christian Workplaces Institute can guide you onto the road to a flourishing workplace.

The first step to begin the journey is our well-known Employee Engagement Survey. This proven online tool pinpoints where your organization is already strong and where you can improve your employees’ workplace experience, resulting in more productive people. That's right. You'll have more engaged, productive, and fulfilled people. Time-consuming guesswork won't get you there. Instead, let us help you with a fact-based, hope-inspiring action plan that only our Employee Engagement Survey and skillful coaching can provide. Sign up now to begin the journey to build a flourishing workplace culture and a thriving organization. Find out more at bcwinstitute.org.

Al: And now, back to today’s special guest.

So, as you know, the BCWI Employee Engagement Survey is built around 55, 56 questions, and it kind of opens the curtains and lets the light in on honest feedback. And you've already talked about trust and transparency as being one of your core. So one of our questions is, I would prefer to remain with Bethesda even if a comparable job at higher pay were available in another organization. So what have you done to produce such high-level loyalty and commitment among your team? You've already referred to it.

Dana: You know, honestly, I was a little anxious about the response to this question before we received the results. We distributed the Survey for completion by our staff just a short time after we reduced wages for a large portion of our team as a response to the need for expense control during COVID, this COVID season, and a new business environment that it created. And I'm thrilled our team responded so strongly to this question. It really shows their engagement and their commitment across the entire organization.

You know, I believe our results are strong for a couple of reasons. One, we do what we say we will do. We hold ourselves accountable to that. As leaders, we have worked hard to create a trusting environment that allows our staff and leaders to challenge others when they are not living up to the core values that we've all agreed to.

Secondly, we do our best to demonstrate our true interest and concern for our staff. We find ways to support them in their professional development and in their personal lives. Just a couple of ways we do that, we offer LinkedIn Learning to our staff, and we offer to pay their registration fees for the Global Leadership Summit, and we support them in their CEUs, or their continuing professional education. And just last year, we started a Bethesda employee-benevolence fund, an opportunity that we as an organization can support those employees out there who maybe are facing some hard times. Plus, for the home-office staff, where there's a little more flexibility in shifts and how we have to staff here, we've offered some flex time for them to be able to work at home or even change the hours that they come and go from the office.

Al: Wow. So during this challenging time, Dana, when we might expect a little more caution, actually, Bethesda employees affirm the desire to innovate and experiment and is, again, oftentimes when faced with challenges, “let's just do what we've always done” is the natural thing. So what does that tell you about your people and what they bring to the workplace culture?

Dana: A few years back, our leadership team started the practice of forward thinking. History is important to recognize the challenges and successes you've had along the way, but we certainly can't rest on our laurels. We know that if we continue to do the same things the same way we’ll ultimately become ineffective and probably will cease to exist as an organization. To extract from the comments from the open-ended question, there are several there that speak to our development of an environment of trying new things. We've encouraged failure—the failure that comes with innovation, which ultimately will contribute to our success. Now, some divisions or departments innovate better than others. But through the analysis of the data in our Survey, we can see a commonality. Is everyone working together for the common purpose? We're all committed to being our best no matter what we try or what we fail at.

Al: Yeah. And for a lot of people, that fear of failure alone is really a roadblock. That’s really—and that you encourage failure, which allows you to learn and thus innovate and even pivot to create new ways of doing things better, that's great.

Well, certainly budgets are on the minds of every leader. And here you are—you've had some cutbacks in compensation to make sure that you remain effective as an organization and solvent. You know, recently at Bethesda, you took some difficult but bold steps, as you have mentioned, to compensation and benefits, yet, still, engagement went up. How did that happen? Our leaders listening are wondering how could that happen? So, Dana, tell us.

Dana: That's a great question, Al. Honestly, I was very surprised by the positive response in the Survey. Thrilled, but surprised. We even debated if we should take the Survey, fearing that we'd see a downgrade in our scores, having just reduced salaries for many and reducing the company match to the retirement plan as a response to the COVID impact on our company and our business today. But what it came back around to for us, if we really, truly desired honest feedback that we seek during the good times, we should seek it during the hard times as well. So this encouraging response to the Survey reveals to us that the mission hasn’t changed. The team is committed to keeping our residents and our employees safe, and to continue to support One Child to the greatest extent we possibly can.

Al: Yeah. To seek feedback in good times and bad times. Absolutely. I just, again, I tip my hat to you, Dana, because it is times like this where you think, oh, my gosh, the last thing I want is to get some feedback because I know it's going to be bad. But here you are. Again, I just tip my hat off. You got some data that surprised you and I'm sure helped you move forward in this time.

Our FLOURISH model, one of the key elements of our FLOURISH model is outstanding talent, the fourth most impactful factor to engagement based on our relative weights analysis. And it's clear that it's your number one strength. And that's fantastic. Can you provide some additional insight that gives insight into an organization who might follow in your footsteps? I mean, I'm specifically thinking about recruiting, hiring, retaining, promoting, recognition; you even mentioned onboarding earlier. Tell us a little bit about this outstanding talent and why it's such a strong factor for you.

Dana: There's a lot we can cover here, but I'll try to narrow it down a bit for the sake of the podcast today. But as it relates to hiring high-quality individuals, for example, most of our leadership positions, we do peer or group interviews. This way we get a broader view of the candidates’ answers, and it helps us to determine their passion, maybe even their experience and their commitment to our industries, whichever industry we might be interviewing for. Also, we're looking for clues and answers in that interview that clearly align their character traits to our culture. And if there are more of us listening to those answers, we're likely to pick up on those clues. And then our leaders must live out our culture in order for our staff to do the very same. We seek to provide clear expectations and listening to our employees about what is impactful to them. And then, as you mentioned and we've talked about before, we do have a strong onboarding program that makes every employee feel committed to the organization from day one. This is always being updated and enhanced, and we hope to enhance that experience for new employee each and every time we review and update that program.

Al: Yeah. Onboarding. That's great.

And retention. Let's talk a little bit about that, Dana.

Dana: You bet. Retention has been a focus for many, many years. You know, we once had very, very high turnover, even within an industry that notably has high turnover. So we've been working on it diligently over the past couple years but isn't where we want it to be yet. And we're making progress, and we'll keep working at it. But we believe that we provide meaningful and challenging work environment. Keeping that staff engaged, it does take timely and honest feedback. So this happens on a quarterly basis through our formal review process, but also those more frequent discussions during a monthly one-on-one meeting that we have between the supervisor and the staff.

And another important aspect of retaining high-quality employees is to create a plan for professional development and growth. We do this through our employee-review process again, and we're typically working on maybe four to seven individualized goals at any one time. A few of them can be shorter goals. These are things that can be accomplished in just a few months or maybe even before the next review meeting. Others might be longer term, such as working toward a certification or a completion of subject-matter training related to their role. So those are important to us as far as relating to retention.

And then it comes down to compensation sometimes. That's a factor that people consider. So we dug into our job descriptions and looked at our philosophy and our practices. We updated all of our job descriptions. We looked at titles, we did compensation grading, and then we explained how wages were determined. You know, this is always a tough category, but open and honest communication on a topic is valued by the employee. Even if they feel their compensation should to be higher, I mean, generally, I like to know that my compensation is going up, and I'd always like to make more. And they're in the same place, but at least they understand how we determined their compensation. And that is the same process for everyone and that we use an outside independent source for that data. So that really takes away the opportunity for favoritism within the compensation realm.

And then ultimately, you know, it's important for each of us to be recognized. We all love to get that “attaboy.” So we started doing public anniversary recognitions with rewards at certain milestones, like their first year of employment and then their third and then their fifth. And then we recognize them with a nice plaque and public presentation at every fifth anniversary or five-year increment beyond that. And just last month, we celebrated our longest-tenured active employee who's been serving with Bethesda for just now 30 years. And it's so exciting to see folks who will support the culture and support the mission for that long.

Al: Fantastic, yeah.

I'm curious. You mentioned retention and reduced turnover. That's got to save you a lot of money when you reduce turnover. Have you looked at that, Dana?

Dana: We have looked at that. We would anticipate that it costs at least one to one and a half times the annual wage of a line-staff employee for each one of those turnovers. So each percentage point that we can reduce that turnover is a tremendous savings to the organization in total.

Al: Wow. Yeah. I’ve heard different numbers. That’s interesting. One to one and a half times. And, you know, that's the cost of recruiting. That's the cost of—of course, the big cost you don't even think about is the training of the new people and let alone the interruption of service that happens. Yeah. That’s thoughtful.

Dana: It can be really trying for the staff. You know, if you think about our business, it's 24 hours a day, seven days a week. So not only is it recruitment, advertising, training time, but it's backfilling those shifts because they also have to be filled. So it contributes to overtime, scheduling challenges, those things. So it is incredibly important for us to continue to work on that turnover.

Al: And that’s another, in itself, cost justification of why you might invest in an engagement survey just to look at that. Wow.

You know, not all teams are created equal, and sometimes team results within an organization can vary significantly. Many of our listeners understand that. You know, with that in mind, what are you really doing here in 2020 to help you address teams that declined or maybe still have more significant improvements to make? You've been on this journey for a number of years, and you've seen how the scores can vary, how the health of the team culture varies from one to another. What improvements have you made along those lines?

Dana: For us, Al, it comes down to the intentionality of each of the divisions or the departmental leaders for those who receive their data. It's being intentional about creating action plans. And we really do use the resources that BCWI provide as we're asking questions of our employees about what they need to flourish as individuals and as teams. But also, we rely heavily upon Cary Humphries, who we work with, with BCWI. And he's provided us a number of category-specific pieces of information to help us develop our plans and to help us achieve this flourishing workplace. And then on occasion, we've actually asked Cary to come in and to facilitate our team meetings and provide additional support to the leader so that the leader of that team or the leader of that division can participate in the conversation on the same level as the staff and the staff members so that they don't have to concentrate on leading the meeting, but rather being a part of the meeting.

Al: Yeah. So you've brought this down to the frontline leaders of your organization, haven't you.

Dana: We absolutely have. That is where it can be most impactful. I can do it from my office, but I don't interact with everybody on a daily basis.

Al: Yeah. That's great feedback in itself. It's not staying with your senior leadership team. It really is getting down to the frontline. That's fantastic.

So it always comes down to leadership, doesn't it. And you've got two great strengths at Bethesda, and that's leadership and trust. So help our listeners. What have you done to help place appropriate emphasis on the leadership message and particularly how you've developed high levels of trust between leaders and staff? That's always a big question that we're asked.

Dana: Open and honest communication. It might sound like you've hit the loop on that, but open and honest communication, it really is so important. You know, many of us led through the Great Recession and have faced many difficult times in our leadership, much like we're currently facing. And we and others hopefully have learned a few lessons then, from back in those recession days, that we're using now. But back then, we talked about the good things that were happening. But most importantly, we talked about the harsh realities that we as an organization were facing. And we asked for staff to participate in the support of the organization to get through it, just like we are today. We won't make it through without the support of everybody on the team rowing in the same direction, as hard as they possibly can.

And the leadership, again, values the whole person. It's not just the tasks that they do, regardless of their level within the organization. We try to learn about their families. We try to learn about their hobbies. We also try to learn about their career goals, and that sometimes even means they move beyond our organization. But how can we support them in the advancement of their career? because we really are concerned about who they are and what they want to accomplish with their career.

Al: Yeah. Compassion for the individual. I love our question and what you do well on is, my supervisor cares about me as a person. It’s really hard to move people forward if they don't get a sense that you're caring about them as individuals, their families, their hobbies, and even their careers. Yeah, that's very thoughtful.

Everything that we've been talking about here, Dana, has been really involves your corporate culture. But this year, you made the decision to survey your facilities even deeper into the organization, leader teams at each facility. So what's been one of the biggest and valuable ahas since this began? And again, as you did it this year, this is in the heart of COVID as well. So what are a couple of the ahas that you found out this year?

Dana: The aha for me is just how hard it is to get that culture and the message beyond that manager level deeper into the organization. We have to do a better job of investing into the development and the growth of our middle management and those leaders. Many haven't had the blessing of working under a servant-minded leader, but more often a harsh manager, and there's a big distinction between management and leadership. And we have to work on that a whole lot more than we have in the past, because those of us who are leading at a higher level, I think we live out that servant leadership. That's how we came by our acronym for our core values as SERVANT, that's built deeply into the organizational culture. But we've got to get it beyond the senior leadership.

Al: I’d love to be a fly on the wall of one of your leadership-team discussions. As you look at the next year, 2021, what's the buzz in the room? What's getting people's attentions, and what do you most want to talk about, and why, when it comes to Bethesda, your culture, what's coming in front of you?

Dana: The buzz for us is 2021 is coming whether we're ready or not. But as we think back to that innovative spirit that our team has developed, we're really starting to look out to 2025 already. You know, we're trying to determine what we'll need in senior living for the future residents. Senior living has a long development cycle, and so we have to be thinking beyond just next year. We are asking the question for 2021, how will our current service offerings need to change to meet the desires of those residents who have maybe stayed at home longer because of COVID but will be moving to senior living, and what is their care acuity and how difficult will it be to provide high-quality service for them? And then we're asking the question about our current practices and what must change with them to become a better care provider. And then, of course, for us, a topic in every leadership meeting is, how do we serve more seniors? If we serve more seniors, we can serve more kids. And organizational growth isn't a given; it's intentional. Our team is looking at ways to simplify, to maximize the margin, because we know that without margin there can be no mission. It all comes back to mission fulfillment for us. The world has changed, but our mission has not.

Al: So, if Jesus were to pull up a seat at the table, what one question can you hear Him asking you and your team when it comes to moving forward, looking forward to 2021 or even 2025?

Dana: Well, I’m—give me some easy questions. These are hard. I think He would ask us, what do you want Me to do for you, or what can I do for you? There are several times in the Bible that He asked that question. And we see characters, and they respond in various ways. James and John asked, they kind of ask for the blank check. They want to rise in positions of authority, and they want to have wealth, and they want to have power. And Bartimaeus was a blind beggar. And when Jesus asked him the question, he asked that Jesus would help him to see not just with his sight—to be able to see the clouds or the people around him—but to see the truth in the story of Jesus and the salvation that would bring to each of us. And our leadership team responds to this will be telling if He asked us that question. I hope, I hope we would ask Him to help us be the light to seniors who are living out the end days of their lives. I hope that He would help us share hope with children living in poverty, that they might know that He loved them just as much as He loves you and I. Finally, that He will help us show genuine care for our employees who make this mission possible.

Al: That’s great, Dana. And I'm sure you'd also hear at the end of that, “Well done, good and faithful servant,” something we all look forward to.

So, well, Dana, I've really enjoyed all that we've learned listening to your stories, particularly a theme that you’ve said again over and over, is trust and transparency is really important, the importance of culture at Bethesda in order to look at the whole person, to put processes in intentional ways in place when it comes to building talent, which is so critically important in your world when it comes to hiring and retention and compensation and recognition. And the way you can save money by reducing turnover and building loyalty. And I love the way people have responded, your employees have responded to that question about staying with the organization even though another opportunity might become available to them. This has really just been great.

Is there anything that you'd like to add that we haven't talked about?

Dana: Well, I think we've all heard this before: it's a marathon, not a sprint. Organizational culture, in my experience, can be changed. We've seen it here at Bethesda. We've seen it at One Child. But it takes consistent focus. Our results have improved, but not in a single year. It's been several years. So don't get discouraged if you ask for input and get an answer that you don't want. Try to view it as an opportunity, not as an indictment, would be my advice.

Al: Yeah. There you go.

Let's conclude our interview, Dana. How about one final thought or encouragement that you'd like to leave with our listeners. What would you say?

Dana: Maybe I can end with a quote from Martin Luther King, Junior. He said, “If you can't fly, then run. If you can't run, then walk. And if you can't walk, then crawl. But whatever you do, you have to keep moving forward.”

Al: Mm. Well, let’s continue to move forward.

So, Dana Rasic, CEO of Bethesda Associates and, literally, for now 60 years, offering faith-based care to seniors, and then reinvesting that net income to support missionary endeavors with children around the world, thank you for investing yourself in everyone who's been listening and benefiting from all you've shared with us today. Thanks, Dana.

Dana: Al, thank you for the opportunity to be with you today. I really do appreciate it. And I listen to this podcast often and am honored to be able to share with your listeners today.

Al: Well, thank you, Dana. And it's really been great. And keep up the good work. And I appreciate the way you've shared. And I know that you're equipping and inspiring Christian leaders to build a flourishing culture. So God bless you. Thank you.

Dana: Thanks, Al.

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