Transcript: Proclaiming the Gospel Through Healthy Workplace Culture // Rachel Spier Weaver, Laura Beirne, HOPE International

The Flourishing Culture Podcast Series

“Proclaiming the Gospel Through Healthy Workplace Culture “

May 17, 2021

Rachel Spier Weaver and Laura Beirne

Intro: Do you wonder as a leader, what are a few of the specific actions that I can take to improve my team's culture? What can I do to reduce relationship conflicts or turnover, disorder, and challenges brought on by the worldwide pandemic? Listen in as today's guests discuss how they have developed an innovative, flourishing culture while serving the world's poor, whose lives are even more desperate as a result of the pandemic.

Al Lopus: Welcome to another episode of the Flourishing Culture Podcast, where our goal is to equip and inspire you to build a flourishing workplace. As we all face today's leadership challenges as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic, we believe having a healthy culture is more important now than ever before. We are here to help you eliminate toxicity, improve your employees’ engagement, speed up new innovation, and grow your organization's impact.

And before we meet our guest today, I urge you to subscribe to this podcast. As a result, you’ll receive our action guide. It’s our gift to help you lead your organization’s culture to the next level. To subscribe, simply go to bcwinstitute.org/podcast. Hit the Subscribe button and receive our free action guide.

If you can share this podcast with others, and rate it, it would mean a lot to me. Thank you.

And now, let's meet today's special guest.

I'd like you to picture your workplace the way it is right now. What do you see? What's coming into view? Okay, good. Now, I'd like you to imagine your workplace if it were better, thriving, maybe even flourishing in just one way. Maybe it's better communications, better teamwork, better talent, better compensation. Hold on to that one improvement for a moment. And what if you can improve not just one area in your workplace culture, but maybe all eight areas that make your culture flourish?

Well, with me are two outstanding guests of a Christian organization that in just one year's time improved in every one of their eight drivers or factors of their culture. And as you hear their story, you can just see what's possible, perhaps with your own workplace culture. So my two guests today are Rachel Spier Weaver, and she's the H.R. manager for HOPE International, a worldwide ministry organization based in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, my hometown. And with Rachel, her colleague is Laura Beirne, the recruitment and international H.R. manager for HOPE International. Laura, Rachel, welcome to the Flourishing Culture Podcast.

Laura Beirne and Rachel Spier Weaver: Thank you so much.

Al: So, let's start with you, Rachel. There's a lot of listeners who can learn from you and Laura on how to take your workplace culture to the next level. And before we do that, though, we'd like to learn a little bit about HOPE International, and in a nutshell, what's the HOPE International story that people need to hear?

Rachel: Yeah. Well, first, I just want to thank you again for having us here, but more importantly, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom with us as we seek to make HOPE a great place to work. Best Christian Workplace Institute has just been a phenomenal resource. So, thank you.

But to answer your question about what people need to know about HOPE, at HOPE, we know that poverty is a complex problem. Most often we think of it as a lack of material resources, but it can also feel like shame and loneliness and abandonment by community. Sometimes it can feel like abandonment from even God. And so to tackle poverty in all its forms, we come alongside men and women around the world through discipleship, biblically based training, saving services, and loans to empower them to provide for their families and build community and find their ultimate hope in Christ’s love for them.

That holistic approach to fighting poverty inspires our work culture. So at HOPE we believe that how we deliver those services is just as important as the products and services themselves. Getting the right people on the team, creating a culture where we can live into our God-given gifts and where we can flourish is a huge part of living out the gospel at HOPE, because those are the folks who are going to carry out the how in how we fight poverty and share Christ’s love.

Al: Thank you.

And Laura, why don't you just piggy back a little bit on Rachel's words, in the form of a life-changing story of what HOPE International is all about.

Laura: Sure, yeah. So to paint a picture of the compelling mission of HOPE, I’d love to point you back to the story of one of our clients. So Marie Endurimana is a woman living in Burundi, which is a country located in central eastern Africa. Marie is a woman that faced just so many challenges in her life. When her husband passed away, she was then forced out of her family's home, and along with her five children, was suddenly found with nowhere to live. I mean, that is a sobering situation. And a local church offered to take them in. And through that connection, Marie ended up joining a savings group at the encouragement of a friend from church. And she was only earning 50 cents per week at this point, but she was able to commit to saving 25 cents per week through this group. And over time, slowly but surely, Marie was able to take a five-dollar loan from her savings group, which then allowed her to start a small produce business.

And as that business grew, Marie's life has changed so dramatically. She's purchased land, livestock, and she actually employs up to 15 other people to farm her land. But really, most remarkably, Marie has since launched a savings group of her own, and this is designed specifically to serve widows, women just like her. And so a story like that, I mean, at HOPE International, that's the heart of it. We want a workplace culture that is just brimming with passion for stories of transformation like Marie’s.

Al: Wow. That's great, thanks.

And Rachel, I'm curious to know, in your mind, is healthy workplace culture, why is it so necessary for HOPE International to fulfill its mission?

Rachel: HOPE’s mission is to invest in the dreams of families in the world's underserved communities as we proclaim and live the Gospel. That's kind of a heavy lift. That is not an easy mission.

There's a few angles you can look at this from. First, there's a practical element that drives us towards a healthy workplace culture. We know that in healthy cultures, we're more engaged, we're more productive, it contributes to higher retention rates, and so naturally, all of those business reasons are really important to us. All of those things help contribute to advancing our mission.

But another driver for a healthy workplace culture is mission specific. So our workplace culture is a way to proclaim and live the Gospel. How we treat each other, how we wrestle together, how much we care about the work that we're called to at HOPE, those things directly relate to our mission. We're serving around the world, but we're also serving each other. And so if we see our engagement numbers slip, we know that we're potentially missing an opportunity to fulfill our mission.

Al: Well, many of our listeners know, when we talk about the percentage of employees engaged, what that means. And I remember looking at your report this last year, and you're at 90 percent—out of all of your employees, 90 percent are engaged, in our definition. Not neutral, not disengaged; they're engaged. So I know that you know what that means and how impactful that is. So that's fantastic.

And at HOPE International, both of you have played key roles in helping to build a thriving, flourishing culture, and one way is through outstanding talent, and that's one reason I wanted to have both of you on this podcast. You know, it's hiring and rewarding and promoting, retaining highly capable employees, having the right people in the right seats. So give us an insight, a strategy that proved to be a game changer for bettering your culture.

Rachel: Yeah. I wish there was a silver bullet for that, but at HOPE, we've just been so blessed with leadership that has steadily invested in our culture since day one. So we’ve never had a need for a turnaround situation. You used the term game changer. There are some things that have worked for us well, some things that haven't.

But what I've learned from observing and getting to work closely with the leadership is that there has to be a two-fold approach to culture building and retaining highly capable leaders. The first is our values: ensuring that they're clear, articulated well, and then acted on. Values are those things that, they don't change. We can trust them. We can predict how leadership is going to respond to things because they've been clear about what's important to us organizationally. At HOPE, our PASSION statement is one of those things that guides our culture and values. So Prayer, Allegiance, Service, Stewardship, Innovation, Optimism, and Nurturing. We all memorize it, we reward each other for it, and that's the framework for the values that we have in our culture.

But the second thing is what we do. So we have our values, and then we have our actions. And so what we do are the activities that operationalize those values. So on the H.R. team, for example, everything we do reflects those values, the PASSION values. From recruitment to benefits to promotions, even to hard conversations, what we do needs to reflect the values.

So specifically to talk about what we do, one of the things that we love is our Milestones program. This is a program that recognizes service at HOPE at yearly increments. So the first year, when you finish your first year at HOPE, you get a HOPE-branded item like a water bottle or a padfolio. You finish your second year, you can go on a HOPE trip to one of our programs, with a friend or a family member, and it helps connect us to the mission by giving first-hand experience with HOPE's work in the field. At year three, we get an additional five days’ vacation time. At year five, we get an investment into our Future Fund, and that’s $2,000 towards our retirement or towards student loans. And then at year 10, we call it our Dream Fund. We get $3,000 towards whatever our dreams are. It could be a hiking trip in the Alps or toward a few classes or anything that we've kind of been hoping and dreaming about doing. This is really mission centric. Our mission is to invest in the dreams of families, and this is just a really neat way to do the same for our staff.

We're also working right now on leveling and banding project. This is actually feedback we heard pretty clearly from our Best Christian Workplace results. To retain highly capable staff, they need to know where they're headed. They're asking, “What's next for me at HOPE? How can I contribute more?” And this has historically been a little unclear, and we're working on making career paths clearer and more predictable so that folks can see a destination or even just incremental destinations along their career journey. So we're really excited about that.

Al: Rachel, let me go back to—I loved your year-two reward, where you’re recognizing service, and that's to actually connect on a mission trip. That's where they first-hand see what's happening out in the field.

Rachel: Yep.

Al: So, after two years, you'll send one of your Lancaster-based or U.S.-based employees to Africa or someplace in the world on an actual mission trip. Is that right?

Rachel: Yeah. We send them to one of our programs. Oftentimes, they go to the D.R, they've gone to Rwanda, but it can be any of our HOPE programs. It really is more observation than actively working in the program. It just allows them to see what happens on a day-to-day basis in the field and get to know our staff and potentially get to know some clients and hear stories firsthand, which really allows people to feel incredibly connected with the mission of HOPE.

Al: Well, I love this. Year one, year two, year three, year five, year 10; you've got a continuous stream there of recognition for service. And I'll just tell our listeners that coming up will be a podcast with Giselle Jenkins talking about career pathing, something you just mentioned, Rachel. So…

But let's talk about a second strength that you've got at HOPE, and that's inspirational leadership. I've known your leaders now for 10 years, and I really highly respect them, and I've read a lot of Peter Greer’s books, maybe most of them. And it's all about leaders and how leaders demonstrate trust and moral humility at HOPE. So why has inspirational leadership been so vital to your organization throughout this current, ongoing pandemic? Give us an update on why it's so important.

Laura: Yeah. I love this category because we do have such wonderful leaders at HOPE. It's critical to have leaders that you really want to follow and to succeed in an organization. And throughout this pandemic, we've seen HOPE's leaders just step up in really new and amazing ways, modeling their leadership through vulnerability and compassion.

So, Peter, our CEO and president, who you mentioned, he began a series of weekly video update calls to our staff during the spring of 2020, and there were three things that stood out to me from those calls that I thought would be interesting to share.

So, the first is he demonstrated real human emotion. It just made him relatable. And through that emotion, we saw a really deep empathy for the situation of our clients. We all know that the most vulnerable suffer the worst in a crisis. And I think for me personally, it kept me focused on the right things: looking outside of myself, remembering the purpose and the vision behind the work that I do.

He also did something that was pretty remarkable and important during the pandemic, which was just expressing recognition in banks in a very public forum for our staff. People were stepping up, and they're still stepping up in new and really important ways. To publicly thank people is really critical to keep them engaged.

Finally, he infused joy and humor. There were games. There are those videos where you could win your own family edition of Throw Throw Burrito. That kept morale up. It kept us just light and to remember that we're all in this together.

And the next, we know that inspirational leadership, it's not just about doing everything yourself; it's about leading and not just doing. And so our C-suite leaders really empowered members of their teams to step up and do the things that only they can do. So one specific example that comes to mind for me, two of our senior directors saw a need in HOPE's ability to effectively navigate an extended crisis. And I would wager that HOPE is not the only organization that discovered such a gap in 2020. And those two individuals, Dan Williams and Josh Meyer, they helped us form a crisis-management team that organized decision-making and communication in such a way that brought confidence and clarity to the organization. And this was, keep in mind, in addition to all the other things on their job description, right? And they faithfully shepherd us through the pandemic, through all their work on the CMT. I'm just so grateful. We're all so grateful for their wisdom and their leadership on that really important endeavor.

Al: Gosh, thanks, Laura. Those are great ideas and a great implementation plan for inspirational leadership during the pandemic. That's great.

And healthy communication, as I've looked at your report, healthy communication is another success story, just in the last couple of years, behind your consistently flourishing culture. So there's so many positives here, but let's just take one. So what happened when you sought out staff suggestions and then acted on them? People know those are key questions that are part of our Survey. It's part of engagement, seeking and acting on employee suggestions. What are some examples?

Rachel: Yeah, sure. I'd be happy to talk through an example. In our previous Best Christian Workplace Survey that we did in 2019, we learned that there was some room to grow in this healthy-communication category. To be fair, there's probably always room to grow, even when folks are doing well in this area. But we saw that there were some things that we could do a little better. And what we began to understand is that when change would happen at HOPE, sometimes it felt like it happened really fast, people felt like the change was happening to them rather than with them, and we all know, I mean, that's happened to all of us on some level, at some point. We know how that feels. It can be blindsiding. It feels like, “I didn't get a chance to weigh in here or share my experience. I do this work every day, and I probably could have helped.” That's not what leaders want. Healthy leaders want input. We're better when we have multiple voices.

So we took that feedback to heart. And coming out of the 2019 Survey, we did some work on the topic of change management as an organization. People went to seminars and conferences to learn more about change management. They took that information and turned it around to teams and HOPE, more broadly. And I think, as a result, we've created some common language and systems around change management that's really better prepared us as an organization to walk through any type of transition, be it big or small, and we're able to do that with more intentionality and care.

Al: I trust you’re enjoying our podcast today. We’ll be right back after an important word for leaders.

What's the one thing we all have in common that impacts the success of our relationships as a person, as a team, as a family, and as an organization? And what’s the one thing, if removed, will destroy the most influential leader, fruitful organization, or great relationship? Well, that one thing is trust. And at the core of any flourishing culture or flourishing organization is high trust levels between employees and leaders. So to learn great steps to improve trust in your own organization and relationships, join us for our next webinar, Creating a Culture of Trust Between Leaders and Employees. That'll be on May 19 at 1:00 Eastern and 10:00 Pacific.

And now, back to today’s special guest.

Rachel: The other thing is that I've been repeatedly reminded of by our chief advancement officer, Chris Forest, he reminds us regularly to share out what we're working on and what's been done as a result of the feedback. We heard this; here's what we're doing. And sometimes even when we act, it's not obvious that the change or the action was a direct result of the feedback. So we try really hard to say, “Here's what we heard, here's what you asked for, and here's what we're doing, and some examples of how the change has been implemented.” And then having periodic touch points on these things is important, and it builds trust.

Al: You know, I call that connecting the dots, in a lot of ways, and I really appreciate what you're saying, Chris is encouraging you to say, is, “Let's connect the dots here. Here's what we heard, here's what we did, and here’s the result.” That's fantastic.

I think all people listening to our podcast, including every Christian leader, wants the best for their organization. And everyone faced some of the same kind of limitations, maybe a stuck point or a disappointment in this time of COVID. I'd like it if you could share a brief story of where you've seen God at work, maybe in a person or a team or maybe even a department, in terms of an initiative. What can you share with us?

Laura: Yeah, absolutely. So I'm happy to share a perspective from our field operations, and then Rachel can share a bit from the H.R. team as well. But the impact of COVID-19 on our international field operations has been significant, to say the least. International restrictions and lockdowns in the countries where HOPE operates, I mean, those things have really materially impacted the businesses of our clients. And they've also presented a real stress test for our methodology. If people can't physically meet together, then group savings and lending become virtually impossible. And yet it's been really encouraging and remarkable to hear the stories of innovation from our field teams.

So two quick examples that come to mind for me, the first is from the Republic of Congo, where the Spiritual Integration Department, they initiated an SMS text alert system to share Bible verses with our clients. So that's a small thing, perhaps, but it's also a grand gesture. It's letting them know that they're on our minds and speaking scripture into their lives. The second is from Ukraine, where the team there organized a webinar panel for clients, including a Q&A time with a pastor and a psychologist, to support their clients during the quarantine period. And the theme for that was “strength for today and hope for tomorrow.” So here in the U.S., for someone like me serving in a support role, I find stories like that so encouraging. Yes, there were challenges. Yes, there were hurdles. But there was also innovation and really remarkable strides forward and in the programs and the work they were doing.

Al: Yeah. Thanks, Laura. That's really interesting. We just finished a webinar last month on innovation, and that's interesting. The discussion that we were having is that you've got really good, healthy communication. People are really able to listen and act on suggestions, and that's one of the core elements of culture that allows innovation to happen. So that's an example of healthy communication breeds innovation in a crisis, which so many organizations have just had a hard time with COVID to make any changes. And here, that's great. So…

You know, I had mentioned before, I have great respect for your president, Peter Greer, and Peter and I have talked about a flourishing culture and how it's linked to ministry impact, where there's—in fact, we've just done some analysis, and we find that organizations that improve the health of their culture grow, and those that see their engagement and the health of their culture decline, they see their revenues decline. How would you say HOPE’s flourishing culture comes to life amongst your people on the ground from villages, I know, and banking institutions throughout Eastern Europe and Latin America, Africa, Asia. You've got such a broad expanse. How do you see that working?

Laura:  Sure, yeah. That's my favorite part of my job. So, in my role, in my international H.R. work, I have the opportunity to get to know people from all over the world and hear their stories. When you talk to our international staff members, it's just exciting. One thing that shines through loud and clear, they're a part of HOPE because, number one, they love the Lord; and number two, they believe in the mission of the organization. Full stop. That's it. And that is energizing.

So let me give you a snapshot of just one of the people that I work with every day. So Lesly Jules is the country director for HOPE's savings-group-program ministry in Haiti. This is a man who holds a master's degree in entrepreneurship, a PhD in leadership. He's a published author. He's a professor. I mean, he is just remarkably talented and gifted. And he's got a lot of opportunities in front of him. He has many prestigious career options open to him, including ones that are likely much more lucrative or comfortable than what he has with HOPE International. And yet he's chosen to remain in his home country of Haiti and serve the most vulnerable through this vocation. Those kinds of stories, again, it's just really inspiring to work alongside colleagues like that.

Al: Yeah. That's great. And Laura, what are some of the countries that you're working in with some of your largest activities?

Laura: Sure. So the bulk of what HOPE is seeing in terms of growth and where we've been expanding in the recent past has been the sub-Saharan Africa region. So the country of Rwanda is a country, for example, where we have our largest savings-group program, as well as our largest microfinance bank. We also have a regional support office in Rwanda, but we have programs in Eastern Europe, Asia, Latin America as well.

Al: Yeah, yeah. Great.

So, we all know, of course, even though you've got 90 percent of your employees who are engaged, but everyone faces growing areas for improvement. What would you say might be a few of the practical opportunities for your workplace culture in how it can improve? Does anything come to mind?

Rachel: Yeah, absolutely. We use the Best Christian Workplace Survey as a tool for listening, and we look at it, and no matter what our score is, there is always room for improvement. And so this year, in our last Survey, we heard that life-giving work was an area for improvement. And it was hard for me to understand that because I would have thought that life-giving work kind of goes hand in hand with engagement. If people are engaged, they must love their jobs. And we really have a high level of engagement at HOPE. So it took me by surprise when I learned that life-giving work was an area for improvement.

But what I'm beginning to understand is that people are engaged at HOPE. One of the reasons people are engaged at HOPE is that it's about mission. We're so committed to HOPE's mission that people are often willing to do whatever needs to be done, even if it's not in their sweet spot, but we want to make sure that we're thriving and using our gifts in our specific roles. And so this is something that Best Christian Workplace encourage us to empower our managers to do. Managers actually have the best line of sight into their team's needs and the unique gifts of individuals on the team and even where there are gaps that could be filled. So practically, this means regular one on ones, where managers aren't just talking about the basic get done, got done, but they're really making space to talk about dreams and where their team wants to grow.

Al: That's great. And we did the initial statistical work that determines what the eight drivers of employee engagement were. We saw those questions that became the life-giving-work area. And then we did relative-weights analysis that told us that that was actually, perhaps, the most important of the eight factors. I was shocked. I was surprised myself. But yet it does make so much sense that people really believe that the mission and goals of the organization help them feel like their work is important. And how does that happen? Well, it’s through managers, isn’t it, Rachel. That's exactly what you're saying. Yeah.

So, well, this has just been great. As we wind down our time, where is your workplace culture perhaps poised for a breakthrough—here's a good question, right?—poised for a breakthrough? You are building on a strategy that's already in place. What do you think about?

Laura: Sure. Rachel kind of alluded to this earlier, but one aspect that has come into focus for us over time is in the category of uplifting growth, or more specifically, career development. Our staff are just increasingly eager to better understand the options that exist in their career trajectory at HOPE. And this makes sense, really, because people who care about their work and the organization, they want to increase in scope and impact over time. The challenge is, though, we're still a relatively small-but-growing organization, and so providing very clear and specific paths for people is tricky. And so we're on a journey right now, along with many other organizations, I think, to better define the ways that people might grow and develop in a career over time, and, again, to support our staff and their managers in that exploration as drivers. And we know that it's critical for staff retention to really lean into this challenge.

So what we're doing on that project is listening well to peer organizations. Compassion International is one that does this really well. Best Christian Workplace has provided us with tools and valuable resources on career pathing. You guys have been such a champion of HOPE. And we're taking this as an opportunity to learn from others who are farther along in this journey.

And then some of the more specific, kind of tangible things that HOPE is exploring on this topic, so one is micro pathing, foreseeing that people don't want to wait the standard five to seven years anymore for a big promotion. So starting to think about incremental growth opportunities and milestones, providing more regular reasons to celebrate and grow in a career.

And then the other is an opportunity to explore less-traditional career ladders. So it's no longer just about that kind of direct, linear growth or even a direct people-management path. Some careers can take the shape of a more sort of jungle gym, or as you guys refer to it, the lattice approach. And that can include more lateral moves or specialty shifts. And we also know that some people are just simply better suited for expanded scope and depth in one particular technical expertise rather than taking on people supervision. So in short, there's just a ton of opportunity here. We're really excited about this growth area as something to learn and develop and continue to see progress on.

Al: Well, you still have work to do to solve global poverty, don't you.

Laura: That’s right. That, too. We’re on it.

Al: Yeah. I know you are. That’s fantastic.

Well, Laura, Rachel, I’ve really enjoyed everything that we've learned today. And I just think about where you started, Rachel, talking about your values. And I know that you've got really strong values. You communicate your values regularly. I mean, that's a core part of the HOPE experience and how that then relates to the actions of what you do. We've talked about recognition. We've talked about inspirational leadership, and during COVID, the weekly videos that Peter and your leadership team did to make sure that people felt connected and engaged in what was going on and how you even had some fun. I'm still not sure how you do the Throw Throw Burrito game on the video of that video conference, but maybe it'll be another podcast on that. And then the communication. I hear the hearts of employees when things happen and especially in their area and they're not involved in it, and they just have this, “I could have helped make this better if you’d just asked me.” You really touched a nerve on that one. And how connecting the dots, you know, saying, “Hey, this is what you've said, this is what we've done, and what we've heard and what we've done about it.” And then how in COVID as we've had the innovation that you've seen at HOPE as you’ve continued to serve the most vulnerable, and we all know that the poor and the other groups that have been hurt by COVID the most. So this has been a great conversation.

Let me just ask, then, is there something in our conversation that we haven't talked about that you'd like to add?

Rachel: No, I think we covered a lot of ground. I mean, we could probably talk for hours about the feedback we heard from Best Christian Workplace. And one of my favorite things that Giselle, the consultant that we’ve been working with from Best Christian Workplace, shared with us is we were digging through a lot, about 235 pages—but who's counting—of the feedback that we got from our staff in the Best Christian Workplace Survey, and just a lot of not just quantitative data but qualitative feedback as well, which is really rich. But I remember going through that and thinking, “Wow, this is a lot,” and Giselle reminding us that when folks are willing to share, that demonstrates engagement. And that was just such an encouragement because, and it rang true, it resonated with me because when I feel engaged, I want to give feedback. I want to have dialog. When I'm not engaged, I won't share anything at all. Well, they probably have…And so knowing that all of that feedback, even taken in aggregate, is just a demonstration of engagement was a really big encouragement.

Al: Laura, how about you? Anything?

Laura: Yeah. So encouraged by the work that the Best Christian Workplace does, and the way that it's added value to what the H.R. team can do to serve our team and our organization better, we are just so grateful for the partnership.

Al: And one final thought, then. The bottom line, as you think about this.

Rachel: Just to reiterate that this has been so fun. Digging through the data has been really hard, incredibly valuable to have this type of annual pulse on engagement. And it also encourages us to have those tough conversations with our teams and forces us to say what's not being said, and it makes us better. So we're incredibly blessed to partner with you and grateful.

Al: Great. Laura, one final thought.

Laura: Yeah. I mean, as gracious as your intro was, I want to make sure it's clear that we are not perfect, that no organization and no person is, right? So we're willing to do the hard work, and we try to approach it with a posture of humility, and I would just encourage other organizations to do the same.

Al: Rachel Spier Weaver, H.R. manager for HOPE International, a worldwide ministry organization based in Lancaster, Pennsylvania; with Rachel is her colleague Laura Beirne, recruitment and international H.R. manager for HOPE International. So thank you both for being so open and genuine about all the things that we've talked about. And I really can sense your enthusiasm, your integrity, your commitment to your colleagues, and most of all, I appreciate your devotion and service to our Lord. So thank you both for taking time out for your day and speaking with us and to all of our listeners. Thank you.

Rachel: Thank you so much, Al.

Outro: Thank you for joining us on the Flourishing Culture Podcast and for investing this time in your workplace culture. If there's a specific insight, story, or action step you've enjoyed, please share it with others so they can benefit, too. Please share this podcast with friends on social media, and show your support by rating, reviewing, and subscribing wherever you listen.

This program is copyrighted by the Best Christian Workplaces Institute. All rights reserved. Our writer is Mark Cutshall. Our social-media and marketing manager is Solape Osoba.

Remember, a healthy workplace culture drives greater impact and growth for your organization. We'll see you again soon on the Flourishing Culture Podcast.