Transcript: Retaining Top Talent Starts with a Selective Hiring Process // Kristen Miller, Emily Hoover, Traders Point Christian Church

The Flourishing Culture Podcast Series

“Retaining Top Talent Starts with a Selective Hiring Process “

January 11, 2021

Kristen Miller and Emily Hoover

Intro: Having a team filled with outstanding talent is a game changer for any organization. Today we talk with a couple of culture leaders in a large church, who have leveraged their culture to be relentlessly selective in creating a staff that is humble, hungry, and healthy. To learn how, listen in.

Al Lopus: Welcome to another episode of the Flourishing Culture Podcast, where our goal is to equip and inspire you to build a flourishing workplace. As we all face today's leadership challenges as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic, we believe having a healthy culture is more important now than ever before. We are here to help you eliminate toxicity, improve your employees’ engagement, speed up new innovation, and grow your organization's impact.

And before we meet our guest today, I urge you to subscribe to this podcast. As a result, you’ll receive our action guide. It’s our gift to help you lead your organization’s culture to the next level. To subscribe, simply go to bcwinstitute.org/podcast. Hit the Subscribe button and receive our free action guide.

If you can share this podcast with others, and rate it, it would mean a lot to me. Thank you.

And now, let's meet today's special guest.

In 2016, Outreach magazine named Traders Point Christian Church in Indianapolis, Indiana, as one of the 100 fastest-growing churches in America. And in 2020, it’s listed as one of the thirtieth largest churches in the United States. Such growth alone is significant, yet there's another reason to celebrate. I call it the hidden story of another kind of growth that can inspire churches everywhere.

And with me right now are two of the best people I know of that can reveal this hidden story. Kristen Miller is the culture and development director of Traders Point Christian Church, and with Kristen is Emily Hoover, the talent manager at Traders Point. Kristen and Emily, welcome to the Flourishing Culture Podcast.

Emily Hoover: Thank you so much for having us.

Kristen Miller: Thank you.

Al: There's so much that I’d like to share with our listeners. And to start off, I wonder if you could give us a picture of Traders Point Christian Church from the inside out. You know, in this time of COVID, for example, are your worship services in person? Are they streamed? Here we are, December 17, just before Christmas. What do you see God doing, and how is He moving on Sunday at Traders Point?

Kristen: At this time, we are offering both online and in-person services, so we're really trying to make it available to everyone. For several months during 2020, we went fully online, and that was an interesting challenge. We basically, our ministry teams innovated and quickly built an online campus, and did it beautifully.

And during that time, one of the ways we saw God work was that our church body actually grew. We had people internationally tuning into our services. So rather than the concerns of a shrinking church body, it actually grew. And then in September, we did start the in-person gatherings again. Found that people just desperately needed to be together, needed that fellowship. So we do very safely provide those gatherings. And God just continues to work in such big ways. Even some of the people that found us online are now attending in person. And we've actually had about 280 baptisms this year. So I think that really is our best evidence of how God is showing up for us this year.

Al: Oh, Kristen, that’s just great and so encouraging to hear.

As I look at your website, I can see that your conviction is that Jesus is the only One who can change anyone, that He is available to everyone, and all you need to do is trust Him, look to Him, follow Him, and let Him do what only He can do in your life. So what you want to do is clear a path to get people to Him. Is that the way I read your website?

Kristen: It is. I would say that captures it really well. Our church mission is to remove unnecessary barriers that keep people from Jesus. So you get all the unnecessary things out of the way, and you make the introduction, and then let Jesus do the rest.

Al: Yeah, that's great. Remove the unnecessary barriers. There are plenty, in many cases.

Now let's go inside your staff culture for a moment. Your BCWI survey results revealed that two-thirds, 66 percent, of your employees are engaged at work. And that's a lot higher than most churches your size, that's for sure. So engaged employees, they're happier, they thrive, they're effective, they make great individuals for teams. Tell us what keeps your people so engaged at work.

Kristen: Well, I think at the very heart of it, it starts with our compelling mission. Obviously, we have the greatest mission in the world, and so every staff member is truly passionate about that. To a person, they would quote it, they would be excited about it, so it does start with that.

And I have to give a shout out to our lead pastor, Aaron Brockett. Even through this difficult season in 2020, he’s absolutely had laser focus on our mission, just has not wavered in the least on our mission. So I think that just remains at the center.

Our survey results revealed, I think, another factor, and that's the character of our leadership and the integrity around mission. So there continues to be an understanding that while our strategy may have to shift, our plans may have to shift, we've had to pivot so much—our favorite word in 2020—we've had to pivot, our focus on mission has remained, and I think that provides stability.

And then, of course, we are passionate about culture. And so I think having such clearly defined values that shape our culture and then having those aligned and woven into everything that we do, it just provides that solid foundation that doesn't change. So focusing on mission, the character of leadership, and our leadership development as well as our culture, those can remain a stable foundation while everything around us changes.

Emily: Yeah, absolutely. I agree with everything that Kristen said, and then I'll just speak to my own personal experience as an employee at Traders Point. Something that keeps me engaged is trust. So Kristen is my boss, and she's really trusted me with significant responsibilities in my role. She pushes me, she stretches me, and she lets me make mistakes. And then she trusts me to do my best and to work with everything that I have. And then we have that relationship that I can come back to her when I need to and ask for help. So because of that mission that she talked about that we all are so passionate about on our staff, and then having that paired with the relationship that I have with Kristen that's built on trust, I can't help but want to give it everything that I have. I believe in this so much. And having a boss that believes in me means everything to me.

And then the second thing that I love, and this was in our survey results, was just our work-life balance. When I'm at work, I am laser focused on what I'm doing. I'm working. I am giving it everything that I have. And then at the end of the work day, I check out. I'm going home. I’m spending time with my family. And that's really gold to me to be somewhere that values both that hard work and time with family. So that's everything to me.

Al: I love that. What a great way to kick things off.

And, you know, both of you lead in a way that's attracting and retaining top talent at Traders Point. And as I look at your survey results, I see our factor, outstanding talent, just off the charts. I mean, you're doing something really outstanding. And I can hear a lot of church leaders asking, “So, how do you do that?” You know, what's been your strategy when it comes to talent? Maybe your secret sauce. How would you describe it, Kristen?

Kristen: Well, I think it starts with our strategy. So when I joined a couple of years ago, coming from the corporate world, I had a lot of talent-acquisition experience, which, obviously, then, bringing it to bear on this mission is a whole different experience and such a privilege. But we've really enhanced, I think, our strategy and our process for where we source, how we do it, how we describe our positions, our open opportunities. It's more like a marketing statement. And we really start with even emphasizing culture in our postings. We've also just driven towards a more focused and consistent process and structure.

So it starts with—and Emily is front lines with talent acquisition—it starts with working with the hiring manager to really clearly identify what they're looking for. So she asks them kind of the hard questions and challenges them about what they must have. What are the “must haves,” and what are the “would be nices”? What are the critical, the true success factors, for somebody in this role? Not a description of a resume, but what are the true success factors?

And then she also really talks about the team dynamics. So we use Predictive Index to help us build job targets so that we really know what kind of person we're looking for, what their traits are, their needs, their drivers. And it's not a decision maker for us, but it does contribute.

I work more at the strategic level, and I will let Emily talk to more of her front-line role, because that's really critical.

Al: Right.

Emily: Yeah. So I’m honestly just so humbled to even be doing what I do. And I don't know that I have any major secrets here because anything that I do, I have learned from someone else. So one of my biggest things that I always try to take with me into the interview process—I have it on a little Post-it on my desk—that I actually got from the Craig Groeschel Leadership Podcast, and it's so simple, but it's also just so important to the hiring process, and that is to be ruthlessly selective. So when we're hiring, we really, truly are ruthless. We often get feedback that our hiring process is lengthy. And so we work to communicate better about that from the beginning and just to kind of set that expectation for what candidates are getting into. But we're really unapologetic in that because we really do want to be thorough and fully confident when we bring someone on to staff that this is going to be a good long-term fit. When we go into interviews, we know exactly what the purpose of that interview is. And so we're always looking at culture fit, character of the person, and then competency in their role. So if there are any red flags through the interview process, when they're meeting with the hiring manager, they're meeting the team or a member of our executive team, that there's a red flag there, is a no. So we've actually had something come up in the final interview, that we thought we were getting ready to hire this person, and we've gone a different route. Just because ministry has enough challenges of its own, that when someone comes on staff, we've got to have that fresh, clean, confident slate going into it in each of those areas of culture, character, and competency.

So there have definitely been times that we've had positions open for longer than we would like when we are being so selective about things. And it can get frustrating at times and cause extra work because we know if there's an open position, that means our other team members on that team are making up for that. So we do our best to expedite the process, but in the end, we're not going to compromise on that hire. It's just not worth it. And I need to be reminded of that at times, too, because I get antsy. I just want to fill the role. But having that long-term fit is more important than having it be completed in a short time frame. So we don't get it right all of the time, but just that phrase of being ruthlessly selective is always playing in my mind.

And then when we do have someone that joins the team and they've gone through that ruthlessly selective process, it's truly an honor to get to be part of this team. And we use that language on staff quite a bit. We get to do this, and we truly believe that. We feel that way. It's an honor to be part of this team and to call Traders Point not only our church home, but also where we get to go to work. So just coming into things from that perspective and knowing that every day we're contributing to the culture here, it's just why would we ever want to leave that? And just it's truly an honor, and it's an honor to do what we get to do.

Al: I love what you're saying. There has to be ruthlessly selective. I mean, that really has a lot to do with creating outstanding talent, which really drives the work the church does. So congratulations.

With achievement comes challenges. You've already mentioned some of the challenges. You don’t fill positions quickly, which some of your staff might say, “We need somebody in here faster.” But again, it comes with challenges. What's one of the most important lessons each of you have learned about working with top talent during this stubborn, even unforgiving, pandemic period that we've been through?

Kristen: Yeah. I think because we had such strong talent was here even before I arrived, but I know since Emily and I joined the team, we've hired some really high-capacity, innovative leaders. And during especially COVID, during this year, when we have had to pivot, some of our goals were unclear because we were constantly having to reinvent ourselves. I think the challenge is, some of those high-capacity leaders, they're going to use their innovation, but trouble seeing achievement or accomplishment or the end of anything. You know, you start to build something, and you start to implement, and then it’s like, wait, stop, we're going to do something different, just out of necessity, and that mission. So I think that has been a stressor for a lot of those high-capacity leaders. It’s the kind of start-stop that they’ve had to do. And again, the upside is they've been able to use their innovation, and the innovators have definitely had a chance to shine.

And then it's a time of testing, right, for us to stay focused on why we do what we do. Humble, hungry, healthy, our values. We've all had to stay humble and remember it's not about us. It's not about our achievement. To stay hungry about our mission. And then just to keep ourselves healthy in every way. And so I think the time of testing has affirmed our passion and our focus despite how we get there. And in that area, we've just had to be very, very adaptable.

Al: Yeah. I’ll have to say, that's fantastic. When you do bring in high-capacity leaders, they want to see that they're able to win. In COVID, we've been linked—defining winning is a hard thing to define. And the goal post seems to move on a regular basis. I know exactly, I feel exactly the way you're describing it. Yeah. Yeah, that's insightful. Thanks.

I trust you’re enjoying our podcast today. We’ll be right back after an important word for leaders.

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Al: And now, back to today’s special guest.

You know, every leader listening right now is looking for ways to bring hope, encouragement, even the light of Christ to their teams and individuals. I appreciate what you say also about being hungry, and we're going to talk more about humble, hungry, and healthy. But I'd love for you to give us a favorite story, maybe inside your workplace culture, that's been life giving to you, maybe your leadership, even maybe the congregation.

Kristen: Yeah. If you don’t mind, I think we’ll each share one. It was fun to talk about this because, gosh, I’m enthused. When we moved to online church in March, I think especially for our frontline ministry, their concern was, gosh, how do we keep in touch with our people? How do we keep that sense of community?  And here came the innovators and found ways to quickly put a prayer-request site online, to put together prayer teams. They included staff members like ourselves who are not typically frontline ministry. We got the opportunity to join small prayer teams of, like, three people. And there was something so grassroots and passionate and beautiful about that. I know the team that I was with, the third person in our—I knew one person well. The other one I didn't know well. And there's something so beautiful about coming together in prayer, and it bonded us as believers. But it also, I think, was such a reminder of why we do what we do, like what is the body of Christ? Why do we need that community and that fellowship? And to be able to meet the needs, even just through prayer, and to feel connected to our church body through that experience, I think was life giving to our staff and definitely to the people in the community that we pray for. It was just an opportunity to stay connected even though we were separated physically. So that will stick with me forever, I think.

Al: Yeah. Wow. That’s great. Emily, how about you?

Emily: Yeah. A highlight for me this year was our staff Christmas party. So typically we get the whole staff together in early December, everyone in the same room, and we'll either share a nice meal together or just do something fun together. I can't take credit for the idea, but this year we did something a little different, and we took the budget that would have typically been spent on a Christmas party and decided as a staff to give that back into our community. So each campus team or a ministry team got to choose where a portion of that budget went, and we were able to support families and organizations in our community. So just in light of everything going on with 2020 and COVID, we just recognized how incredibly blessed we are as a staff, just coming from that place of gratitude to be able to do something for our community. And it was a highlight for me because of how excited our staff was to do that. Just to see them light up. They really got creative with the organizations and the people that they connected with. Each campus team has different needs in their community. So to see them really rally behind some of those causes and to pray for the families and their communities, it was definitely a highlight and a huge honor to be part of that.

Al: Yeah. To turn that from a celebration into actually ministering to others in that process, and then celebrating the ministry through others at the same time, that's great. Wow.

You know, for every life-giving story that feeds and improves your workplace culture, there's usually a story that's in the works, you know, something that's still in motion, maybe something that's not really even finished yet. Can you give us a peek at something that you're doing with your talent right now that maybe isn't really even finished yet but is already energizing your culture?

Kristen: Yeah, for sure. And I love to talk about this. We recently launched an effort around cultural intelligence, or we’re calling it CQ, with the vision of our church becoming more of a welcoming place for all people. So we need to grow our cultural intelligence so that we can be the change that we want to see in our church. So we often say, as the staff goes, so goes the church. So last year we started with our leadership-development strategy that we launched. This year, it's being rolled out to our key lay leaders in the church. So now we're starting CQ with the staff and really just trying to improve and grow and learn in our knowledge and in our skills when it comes to other cultures. And that is a broad definition, all cultures, all socioeconomic, all ethnic backgrounds, different communities, because we have that represented not just in the Indianapolis area, but we have online campus locations that are in Oregon and overseas. We want to make sure that we are welcoming to all people. So we kicked it off recently, but really first quarter in 2021 is when we're going to complete our full strategy, which is probably a two- to three-year effort.

And to see how the staff embraced the initial steps was just beyond what I expected. Every time I am tentative about something, they prove me wrong. And they just came through with such passion and excitement because of the theology behind it, the scriptural foundation, they're really excited to jump in and to grow in this area so that we can impact the ministries and the ripple effect to our community.

Al: I really like this, cultural intelligence. You’ve said the statement, “As the staff goes, so goes the church.” And I really believe that. I love that. I’ve even said in the past, “The health of the staff today is the health of the church tomorrow.” And you're leading, you're actually implementing that with the CQ concept. And what a great way to not only improve the staff, but also to improve the community, your congregation as well as the community. That's fantastic.

And kind of going along with that CQ is also transparency. Your transparency is critical as we work in talent and communicate with our staff. So if you don't mind being a little transparent with us, maybe I'll put you on the spot a little bit, but what's one area on the talent side of your workplace culture that you're committed to improving? And what would that be? Why are you doing that?

Kristen: Yeah. I think the one thing that we're—I know it’s my goals for 2021—is to continue to work on how we manage change, just in a quickly growing church. You mentioned at the very beginning of the podcast how quickly we've grown. With that comes constant change, and how we manage that, I think we can do better there. I have a background in that, but every organization, you've got to meet that need a little bit differently. So we're working on that.

One of the things that our Predictive Index data has shown us is that I think about 65 percent of our staff is not naturally wired to love change. We need a little more time, but we're moving quickly. And so in order to prevent what I call change fatigue, we're really doing better in paying more attention to how we introduce change and then provide resources throughout the process. That's the first thing that came to mind when you asked that.

Al: Yeah, change. Yeah. And that’s an interesting outcome, the Predictive Index, which is a fascinating tool, and how that has helped you understand the character or the nature of your staff not to really want to embrace change. And that in itself is informative, isn't it.

Kristen: Mm-hmm, it is.

Al: I'm just curious, Kristen, when you talk about the Predictive Index, for our listeners, can you tell us a little bit about that? I know it's a tool that I've been acquainted with for probably over 30 years.

Kristen: Yeah. We selected that last year, about a year and a half ago. You know, there are so many great assessments out there, and I prefer none of them. The reason that we—and I’ve worked with many of them—but the reason we chose PI is because of its long-term success, for one thing, through the years. But it also is one of the few instruments that's validated for hiring by the EEOC. So it's validated as being nondiscriminatory. That's HR speak. The more cultural reason we chose it is that it uses language—every assessment uses different language around personalities, traits, preferences. Everybody has their different language. I really felt like the language that PI uses around your needs and your drivers really get more to the heart. And that's what we do. We’re a church.

Al: Yeah.

Kristen: We’re staff. We have a lot of feelers. And I think, you know, when you think about creating any kind of organizational change or behavioral change, you've got to get to that root issue. So I think knowing what people's needs and drivers are, any relationship is healthiest when you're meeting one another's needs. If we know what those are, that makes for a much healthier opportunity for relationships, I think, amongst the staff.

Al: Yeah. Wow. And again, you’re using that. And your outstanding talent is off the charts on our FLOURISH model. There’s probably a connection there. Yeah. Thank you for sharing.

In your most recent BCWI survey, one of your staff offered this anonymous open-ended comment, “This is a healthy culture, where people are valued and invested in. There's lots of balance, flexibility, and an effort to build it.” And then the person wrote these three words to describe your culture—you've already mentioned it—"humble, hungry, healthy.” So can you give our listeners a picture of a workplace culture that's humble, hungry, and healthy, but especially hungry and healthy?

Emily: Yeah, absolutely. And you said that we had already talked about it a little bit. And if you spent a day around here, you would hear it. You would hear those words because we talk about it all the time. And I love talking about our culture. It's honestly one of the most fun and easiest questions that I get to answer almost every day when talking with potential future employees. And I can say that because of our leadership. So starting with our executive pastor, Greg, and with Kristen, they've set the tone and developed that foundation and that language for our culture. And they've identified those values as what we're striving for: humble, hungry, and healthy. And they’re relentless. Talk about ruthless. They’re keeping it in front of people. It’s always woven into every conversation that we have. So, yes, those words are on our website, but they're also ingrained in our staff meetings, in our one-on-one meetings with our supervisors, the way we talk with each other. And it really helps to have that unity and the vision for our culture and what we're striving towards.

So when we talk about those humble, hungry, healthy. Humble, that we recognize our place in what we do, that our work is not about us. It's an honor to get to be here and to serve our King and to serve the guests that come through our door. For our team specifically, the culture and development team, we're caring for the caregivers. So our whole role is not about us. It's about serving our staff so that they can serve within their ministries.

And then hungry. We've talked about our mission a lot. We believe we have the most important mission in the world, to remove those unnecessary barriers that keep people from Jesus. So when you have that mission, how can you not give everything you have every day? It’s just an honor to get to do what we do. So we have to bring our best every day. We have to serve eagerly every day with that hunger and that drive. So that's kind of what we mean by hungry.

And healthy. The way that we define it here, we really want Traders Point to be a place that people can serve in ministry for a long time. We recognize the burn out, and that can happen in ministry. And so health is really a priority. And to really kind of narrow that down a little bit more on what we mean by that, we look at RPMS. So that's relationally, physically, mentally, spiritually. How are we doing in those? We talk about those. Every one on one starts with, in the supervisory meetings, it starts with, how are you doing in RPMS? So that's kind of the language that we use. And again, we're not perfect. But when you have that clarity of vision and what you're striving for in the culture, that makes it a lot easier to know what you're working toward.

Al: Wow. Gosh, that's really insightful. I love the humble, hungry, healthy. And as you say, humble, it's not about us. You know, we're here to serve. And also we're in a position where we can learn, particularly as we're learning in COVID, even learn to change and pivot as we need to to be innovative as we do our ministry. And hungry is the mission is important to really stay focused on that. And I love the RPMS part of healthy—relationally, physically, mentally, spiritually—and that you actually bring that up in one on ones just to kind of check in with people as to how they're doing. I love it. Yeah. Podcast listeners, leaders, there’s some ideas for you to think about.

So Emily and Kristen, I've really enjoyed all that we've learned today. You know, as I think about our discussion starting off, Kristen, you talked about the mission, the character of leaders, the culture, your values. Emily, you talked about trust and how important that is to you, and your trust not only with Kristen but others, and the work-life balance. And those themes really ran through as we talked about your three cultural words, humble, hungry, and healthy, and how that really has made your talent so effective and outstanding because of your relentless selective process for hiring. And that you use the three Cs. Interesting. Everybody has theirs, and I can see where yours really apply: culture, character, and competency as part of that selection criteria. Using Predictive Index, a specific tool. And to build into your staff first, this important topic that we're all trying to struggle with, and that is your cultural intelligence, how we can be the change that we want to see, and how the staff goes, so goes the church with that. And diversity, inclusion, all that we've been through this past summer, what a great initiative to start with the church, how that's going to carry through the congregation and the community to make your area even a better place to live and be a Christian witness. Boy, this has really been exciting.

Let me ask you then, Emily, Kristen, anything you'd like to add to what we've talked about?

Emily: Yeah, I do have something I’d like to add. I think just going into this podcast, I think it could be easy to look at the results from our survey and think, “Oh, the culture and development team, those would be good people to talk to.” But we're just such one small part of our Traders Point staff culture. And really every interaction, every conversation that's had behind closed doors, every task that's completed is an opportunity for every single member of our staff to either be building our culture or taking away from it. Every staff member is contributing or taking away from that humble, hungry, healthy culture every single day in everything they do. So we're not perfect, we’re broken people, but we know what we're working toward, and that vision for our culture is clear. So just that we can't really take full credit for that culture that we have. Our entire staff has built this culture, and it's an honor to stay, to be part of it.

Al: Yeah. Thanks, Emily.

Kristen: Yeah. I would tack on to what Emily said. You know, a healthy culture. The other thing I would emphasize is that it starts with sponsorship at the top. We didn't bring this up. Greg Anderson, our executive pastor, had the vision for this, why he asked me to join and bring my corporate experience to help with his vision about the culture that we should have. He always says, “Why wouldn't a church be a best place to work? It should be.” And so that in itself is compelling. So it starts really with that sponsorship. But I agree with what Emily said. Every person plays a part in it. And really, we constantly go back to the Word. There is, when you look at humble, hungry, healthy, everything we talked about, there's a scriptural foundation for that. We didn't make this up. This is really just following what Jesus modeled. He’s certainly someone who’s humble, hungry, and healthy, and modeled that for us so beautifully. So our plan is to keep doing what we're doing, but to just continually follow His example and look to God’s Word for the source of our organizational values. Can’t go wrong.

Al: Yeah. Boy,  I love that, Kristen. Why wouldn't the church be the best place to work? As you say, it should be. I mean, that’s very much our vision, that Christian workplaces, the church, should set the standard as the best, most effective place to work in the world. Amen.

And oftentimes we like to end our interviews, our discussion, with, if you could boil it down, one final thought, one thing that you'd like to leave with our audience.

Kristen: Yeah. I’ll share my thoughts, and then have Emily share hers as well. Through the years in my HR career and now culture development, I love the word alignment. I think it is so important. And so I think what you have to think about as you are trying to grow a culture is to keep your focus on the why and really fully develop your how, and that is your values, the rules of engagement. How are you going to do this? What's your culture going to look like? Then, you have to weave it into everything, into your messaging with your staff, how you measure, what you measure, your recruiting. I would say the first conversation Emily has with a potential new staff member, she's talking about culture and our values. It's how leaders model it. That, obviously, is very critical. Just everything related to your people has to align with your values, and it just takes intentionality. It's like discipleship. It’s a growth process. It's a journey. But when you put that work into it, the payoff within, starting with the staff, is just incredible. Working in a healthy culture, I know I've worked in plenty that were not, and boy, do you feel the difference. It is the most joyful, gratifying opportunity to work in a healthy culture. And then, obviously, it impacts the church overall. So that's our long-term vision.

Al: Yeah, great.

Emily: Yeah. I'd love to just say that at least here, this has all started with our leadership and defining the vision for our culture. So my job, it's really been made easy because of those that have gone before me and set the stage for what we're chasing after. So just really set that vision by the leadership and then be relentless in talking about it. Our culture wasn't built overnight. Just don't give up.

Al: That’s right.

Kristen Miller, culture and development director, and Emily Hoover, talent manager, for Traders Point Christian Church in Indianapolis, Indiana, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, insights, and stories, and thank you for investing yourself with this time that you’ve invested into everyone who's been listening and benefiting from all you've shared with us today. Thanks so much.

Emily: It’s been a lot of fun. Thank you so much for having us.

Kristen: Thank you.

Outro: Thank you for joining us on the Flourishing Culture Podcast and for investing this time in your workplace culture. If there's a specific insight, story, or action step you've enjoyed, please share it with others so they can benefit, too. Please share this podcast with friends on social media, and show your support by rating, reviewing, and subscribing wherever you listen.

This program is copyrighted by the Best Christian Workplaces Institute. All rights reserved. Our writer is Mark Cutshall. Our social-media and marketing manager is Solape Osoba.

Remember, a healthy workplace culture drives greater impact and growth for your organization. We'll see you again soon on the Flourishing Culture Podcast.