Transcript: Ministry on the Edge: A Mental Health Wake-Up Call // Bishop Geoffrey V. Dudley Sr., New Life in Christ Church

Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast

“Ministry on the Edge: A Mental Health Wake-Up Call“

May 12, 2025

Bishop Geoffrey V. Dudley Sr.

Intro: What if the most powerful leadership lessons come not from your victories, but from your storms? And in this compelling episode of the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast, Bishop Dudley shares the raw and redemptive story of how God shaped his leadership through crisis. From launching affordable housing and a behavioral-health center through his church to confronting suicidal thoughts in a moment of deep despair, Bishop Dudley opens up about the high cost and higher calling of Christian leadership. You'll be inspired by his honest reflections on spiritual disciplines, the necessity of vulnerability with your team, and how relational leadership is transforming his ministry's future. Don't miss this powerful reminder that God's faithfulness shines brightest in our darkest moments.

Welcome: Welcome to the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast, your home for open, honest, and insightful conversations to help develop your leadership, your team, and build a flourishing workplace culture.

Al Lopus: Hi, I’m Al Lopus, the co-founder of the Best Christian Workplaces and author of Road to Flourishing, the go-to research-based, Christ-centered guide to building a flourishing workplace culture. My passion is to equip Christian leaders like you to create engaged, flourishing workplaces, where people thrive and organizations make a significant Kingdom impact. If you'd like to learn more about my book, opportunities for me to speak, this podcast, or recent articles I've written, I encourage you to visit allopus.org That’s A-L-L-O-P-U-S dot org. Let’s journey together toward building workplaces where your faith, leadership, and organization flourish.

I’m delighted to welcome Bishop Dudley to the podcast today. Bishop Dudley is the founder and senior pastor of New Life in Christ Church in Greater St. Louis, and the author of Leading Through Storms: Successfully Navigating Ministry While Maintaining Your Mental Health.

Throughout our conversation, you'll hear Bishop Dudley share how leadership requires vulnerability and authenticity, how crisis can become a catalyst for calling, and how flourishing ministries are built through community transformation.

I think you're going to love this conversation and interview with Bishop Dudley. But before we dive in, have you ever wondered what truly sets Christian workplaces apart from the rest? Well, the State of the Christian Workplace 2025 report from Best Christian Workplaces is here, and it's a game changer. Based on feedback from nearly 160,000 employees across churches, schools, ministries, and faith-driven businesses, this report uncovers what matters most to employees today and what's driving real transformation in the workplace. Whether you lead a church, a nonprofit, or a business, you'll discover the latest trends in employee engagement and how your workplace health compares to others in your sector and what steps you can take to create a culture that honors God and empowers your people. This isn't just data, it's a roadmap to flourishing. So, download your free copy today at workplaces.org and begin the journey to build a Christ-centered workplace where your mission and your people flourish.

And I’d like to say hello to our new listeners. Thanks for joining us as we honor your investment of time by creating valuable episodes like this.

Let me tell you just a little bit more about our guest, Bishop Dudley. Bishop Geoffrey V. Dudley Sr. is the founding and senior pastor of New Life in Christ Church, one of the fastest-growing churches in the Metro East area of St. Louis, Missouri. He's also the author of the newly released book, Leading Through Storms: Successfully Navigating Ministry While Maintaining Your Mental Health. Originally from Goldsboro, North Carolina, he began ministry at the age of 13 and was ordained in the United Holy Church of America in 1986. He's also a retired Air Force Chaplain and a Lieutenant Colonel. He has his PhD from Regent University. He's also the CEO of iLead Enterprises, a leadership-development platform for staff and workforce development. He and his wife, Glenda, have two adult children, who are both ministry leaders.

So, here’s my conversation with Bishop Dudley.

Bishop Dudley, it’s great to have you on the podcast, and I’m looking forward to our conversation today.

Bishop Geoffrey V. Dudley Sr.: Well, thank you for having me. I’m so honored that I have the opportunity to serve you and your audience. I certainly hope that this meets and speaks to where they are and move them to where God wants them to be.

Al: You know, I'm really impressed, learning about your church and your local community. I'm impressed with the influence that you have in community building and the practical help that you're providing for people in your area. So, give us a snapshot of the community ministry of New Life in Christ Church. Share the fruit you're seeing now in a ministry partnership between your church and a community-development company, building affordable housing for seniors as well as a behavioral-health center. Tell us a little bit about that.

Geoffrey: As you know, Jesus is famous for saying He had nowhere to lay His head. But He did not make that a command that we should not be concerned about those that do not. And in fact, you know, He asked that question in Matthew, did you visit Me? Did you feed Me? Did you see about Me? And having asked that question, I think the answer to that is for us to be engaged in the community and see about those, the least and the left out, and those who are in the margins. And part of that is housing.

And so to that end, our church came and decided that we were going to have and develop a community-development corporation, you know, apart from the church—different board, different mission, all of that—and then partner with a developer who does that kind of work and to meet the need in the community. And so, I just visited there, just actually came in my office from the site where there's 60 units that are being built. The majority is one bedroom, kind of villas, if you will, and then some two bedrooms. And that cooperation is with the Illinois Housing Authority and AHDVS is the developer, and you work with the city. And then, right now there's a waiting list for seniors to come in, affordable. We call it houses of choice, communities of choice.

Al: Well, that's fantastic. Yeah. Thanks for sharing.

And let's transition into talking about your book, which University Press has published. It's called Leading Through the Storms. And you draw connections between your military training and the preparation that a leader needs to do before storms come. And for all of us, we know storms come to all of our lives. So, what do you see as some of the key practices that Christian leaders need to incorporate into their lives while the sun is out, if you will, before the storm comes?

Geoffrey: I like that, “while the sun is out.” What are you doing while the sun is out? And what comes to my mind and my 21 and a half years of military and retired chaplain, Lieutenant Colonel out of the Air Force, of which I certainly enjoy, really enjoyed that work, was regiment, routine, and consistency. Those are the things that come to my mind. And the formidable, powerful force that we have in America comes as a result of that practice, practice, practice. And I think of those things as well in terms of playing sports. Any championship team you see practice, practice, practice. So when you're in the flow, you're in the midst, you are really acting out of muscle memory. And there it is with storms. They are inevitable, but preparation is intentional. And to that end, you got to practice. You got to have regiment. Regiments of prayer, regiments of devotion, regiments of routine of self-reflection. Those are some of the things that I would speak to that will help prepare a person for the inevitability of storms, because the level of storm is equal to the level of the blessing that God has for you.

Al: Almost an equal equation, you’re saying, Bishop. If you’re blessed, you’re going to have storms equal to that blessing and vice versa. Yeah. Well, fascinating. Yeah.

I was a tennis player in college, and I know exactly what you're saying about muscle memory, and you've got to have the strokes ready and not be thinking about it when you're in the middle of the match. Yeah. That's exactly right. And you know, prayer, devotion, self-reflection, just a few of the spiritual disciplines that we as leaders should be involved in in the sunny days as well as when the storm comes. Yeah, yeah.

So, for your church, the storm was difficulties with the bank during your construction process. It’s just one example. And you've taken the burden for this storm on yourself without sharing it with your executive team, which is oftentimes a natural outcome. So, talk about the perils of a senior leader taking on too much themselves without sharing openly with their senior team. What did you learn from the importance of shared leadership and having a strong leadership team in that experience?

Geoffrey: You know, if ever there was a lesson learned, that's one. Trust when I tell you, all leaders, to include senior pastors or at any level, got a touch of DNA that wants to be a hero. And I don't mean in some arrogant way. I don't mean that at all. I mean more in terms of, “I want to fix this. I want to fix this thing.” And that was a huge mistake on my part with respect to the banks reneging literally on their written agreements and really, in many ways, treating us like we were not worthy of being loaned to or, really, redlining us, if you will. And we have the data to prove it and to show it. But drawing all of that to myself was not healthy, and it was not good, and it was not the way to go, by no means. I would encourage no senior leader or any leader to pool things. I would encourage developing, developing the people around you.

Al: And including them as a team. So, how did that work, Bishop, you know, in your situation as you were addressing this and kind of, I'm sure you were feeling the pressure yourself, but then you let in the team?

Geoffrey: I remember it very well. Myself and the CFO and director of operations, one and the same person, told them and drew them in. It was a tearful time, because they did, as we see with Moses, they immediately came up and held up my arms. And they really said this, you know, “Don’t do that again. We're here for you.” And they really went to bat, and it really developed all of us. So, it was a tearful time because there was an extreme amount of pressure.

I remember working with the contractor and those that we owed. And I remember them saying that they were going to come for my house. That was a lot of pressure, you know. “Sign over your house so that we can, you know, we'll lien against that,” and so on and so forth. That was an extreme amount of pressure. And when I shared with them all of that, they said, “If we have to shut the doors, that's not something you need to do.” That was a tearful moment. Their level of concern and care about the ministry and my family was touching.

Al: Yeah. And being that vulnerable, oftentimes as leaders were afraid to be vulnerable like that. It might push people away, we think. But actually, what you're saying is, your experience was it really drew your group together with support and solidarity to move forward. And a lot of, I'm sure, a lot of personal confidence and kind of, “Okay, we'll go together. We’ll go through this together.”

Geoffrey: Yeah. Those were our precise words, “We’ll go through this together.”

Al: Well, gosh, I appreciate your honesty. Thank you, Bishop.

And also, your book is very honest, and you put into words what some leaders might feel about being afraid to share. You know, particularly at a particular low point, you had thoughts of suicide, as you write, that perhaps ending your life would be the best way forward. Share with us how you got to that place, and then how you moved forward. I just know that there are leaders listening. You know, we all have come to tough points where we're kind of at crossroads. How did you move forward? Tell us a little bit about that.

Geoffrey: I got to that place from a leadership point of view that leaders solve problems, and I thought, “Well, this is the way to solve that problem;” that I did not see any other way to solve the problem; that by doing that, the Key Man Life Insurance would pay. All of the things would be paid. There would be enough money for my family. And I saw it as a solution. You get backed in the corner, of course, but I saw it as a solution.

And now how I got out of that was, and I talk about this in the book, it was a God moment. When I was with my executive coach—I had been trying to talk with him and finally reached out and we talked—and I shared with him at that moment, right at that crossroads, while standing there. And those words that he said to me, I'll never ever forget. You know, he said, “If you do that,” and I was right there. He said, “If you do this, you will never know how God was going to bring you out.” That resonates with me today. There would have never been a chapter 10 in this book.

Al: You'll never know how God would have brought you out. Wow.

You know, Bishop, so, there you are. You had an executive coach, so you were talking with somebody about this. Yeah. That’s something for us to understand and learn as well when we get into these kinds of situations. Yeah. Thanks for sharing.

Geoffrey: That, you know, when I think about that, yeah, I had an executive coach because I had an executive coach to help me and then help the church to strategize. And I had a counselor, but then at that level of having a counselor, that stepped up. That went up several notches then, because his whole thing—and I'm a certified executive coach, and it's one thing that you have to be very clear about—hey, coaching and counseling is two different things. Just like coaching and consulting is two different things. And so his thing was, okay, you know, he shared that, but the next thing, “You need to really lean into your counselor,” which I did.

Al: So, an important aspect of your story, as we're talking, is that normalizing the need for leaders to take care of their mental health, and so you had some help with that, and to get professional counseling, as you mentioned. So sometimes when we're in the midst of a storm or depression or a hard, lonely place, it's hard to be rational about how to move forward.

And I do want to mention to our listeners, there is a national suicide hotline that's 9-8-8, just a three-digit call on your phone.

But what are some of the warning signs a leader should notice regarding their own mental health, and how should they respond, based on your experience?

Geoffrey: Change in behavior, change in eating, change in sleeping, change in those kinds of things. Fatigue. For me, oddly enough, now, because I come out of, like I mentioned, I was an Air Force Chaplain. I was in a world that was very much about continuing education, counseling, so on and so forth, and being attuned to certain things. And so, to that end I was attuned to certain things with myself. When I have an intensity of sweets, I know that I'm stressing, and I'm feeling blocked in. Sleep, those kinds of pieces. The list is those particular things, and I think when you begin to pick up on that and get to know yourself. Know thyself. And Sun Chi, in terms of war, says you have to know yourself, and you have to know your enemy. And if you can't know your enemy, you got to really know yourself. Paul says, examine yourself so that you won't be judged or examined. So, I think self-reflection, a healthy sense of honesty about yourself helps one to know, “I'm not at a good place right now.”

Now, my problem was, “I'm not at a good place, but my problems need to be solved, and I don't have time to solve them or to take care of myself.” I'm not that way now, trust and believe, not that way now, by no means.

Al: Yeah, yeah. So, when you start eating sweets, you know?

Geoffrey: Too many, too many.

Al: Too many. Yeah. Okay.

Geoffrey: I'm not going to stop eating sweets now, that's not going to happen.

Al: Yeah. But, yeah. Know yourself. Examine yourself. But the self-awareness, you know. So, what are the triggers? I think for all of us as we're listening to this and listening to your story, you know, what are that triggers? What are the things that we're not taking care of ourselves the way we should, and how can we understand and be aware of it exactly? That's great advice for us.

As part of coming through your storm, you sought counseling yourself, and you and your wife also sought counseling together. So the subtitle of your book, Successfully Navigating Ministry While Maintaining Your Mental Health, which is a great subtitle. So talk about the importance of recognizing the toll that leadership takes on the family. And again, we've got a lot of ministry leaders here who have experienced difficulties with their family relations, and we see it particularly in church leadership, and the importance of continuing to build a strong marriage through all of this. So talk a little bit about the importance of that.

Geoffrey: I think even though we know the Scripture that says, how can one, if you're not leading at home, then you cannot lead at the church. If you cannot keep order in your home, you cannot have it in the church. I'm an O.G. guy, and I'm a PK. And it was, yeah, I see that Scripture; I know it's in there, but we need to sacrifice. We got to do what God has called us to do. And everybody ought to just chip in and sacrifice. And I read somewhere a survey that says that the overwhelming majority of ministry families, in particular senior pastors' families, feel that ministry has pulled from them, not added to them. And to that end, I think it's critical that we minister first at home. Easier said than done. Easier said than done. And so what does that look like?

Now, for my children, I was very, very guarded about them. I am a PK. So, I would stand up over the pulpit, and I would say to people, “My kids talk back to me just like yours. My kids are teenagers.” These were when they were teens; now they are adults, and they are in ministry themselves as seminary graduates, both of them. But I would protect them by saying that. But when it came down to the marriage—and I will say this overall, not just mine—but not as much because, you know, we're driving for to do what we believe God has called us to do, and you don't put as much attention to it. I would encourage to do that.

If I had to replay, I would take longer vacations. If I had to replay, I would take more time. And when I say longer vacations, longer than a couple days, because, you know, I would always say, I would say, “I just need a couple of days a year, and I'm good.” I don't say that anymore.

Al: Yeah. It needs to be a way to refresh and rebuild relationships with our spouse, with our wives. Yeah. That's great advice. And yeah, more than a couple days. But I really like what you said, “Is ministry pulling from your family or adding to it?” There should be relational fruit that comes from our ministry that impacts our family as well when we're serving together than not. Yeah. That’s great.

You know, key points in your ministry: you've had a mentor—you've mentioned that already—a coach, a trusted person in your life to turn to for counsel. You're also a certified coach, so you understand this very well. And as you and your leadership team at your church invest in raising up the next generation of leaders, and I know you're intentional about that, what are some of the practical ways that you incorporate relational connections in your leadership-development efforts?

Geoffrey: My daughter and my son-in-law are back on staff. They were on staff; now they're back on staff. I try to learn from them. I like watching how they do ministry. And that relational piece, so critical. And for me, I'm like—and I think it's the military; it's sports, and all of that—let's just score, okay?

Al: Let's get the puck in the net, as they say in Canada, right?

Geoffrey: Can we just do that? That's what this is about. What is all of this other relational stuff and having coffee and all of that? No. But watching them and listening to them. In fact, before we started, I just read an email from her, and she was saying, okay, here are when we are going to do coffee. And I'm like, okay. All right, we'll do coffee, but can't we just…? And so I'm learning. I'm learning this whole relational thing.

Let me get to your thing here. So the point that I'm making and learning from them, I pulled together some key next-gen leaders and created a focus group. We're a multi-generational church, but I'm getting older. And I said to them, “Okay. The first thing we need to do is I need to hang out with you guys.” Relational. I would have never done that five years ago. I would've went straight for, “We got to do this, that, and the other. When can you guys show up and do it?” And so I spent several times, we just met and hung out.

Now, Al, if you only knew how hard that was for me.

Al: I think there's a lot of us listening going, “Yeah. We know exactly what you're saying.” Yeah, exactly. And as I've got my arms crossed here, just thinking about it. Yeah.

Geoffrey: Can we just get to what we were…? But if you want to go have coffee, let's go have coffee. If you want go bowling, let go bowling. Okay.

So, we are now, finally, like, six months later, seven months later, after I established this focus group, we're finally getting down to that. And essentially what I'm having them to do, they're going to shadow the board, the church board. We call it the vision board. They're going to shadow the board. They're going to do this. They're going to do that. They're going to be trained what it means to be on the board, and all of that, you know. But I'm telling you, five years ago, I would have said, “Okay, you now, here it is.” And we have a set-man polity at the church. And I would've said, “Okay. This is what I need, so let's do it. I want it done tomorrow.” But now I'm, like, six, seven months, and I'm finally getting around to it. Relationships. Relationships.

Al: All about relationships in one way, and that's what it comes down to it, doesn't it? Yeah. And yeah, good for you. And I think, again, all of us are listening to that balance of doing and being, in a way, isn't it, Bishop? where if we sit and enjoy relationships and be as people, then we're, I believe, actually more effective in doing in the long term. Yeah. And especially, as what you're saying is, as part of your leadership development, working with the next-gen leaders, that's a way of, with those relationships, sitting down and having coffee, understanding each other, then you're able to work more effectively together to move things forward and to prepare them, you know, for leadership. Yeah, exactly.

Well, this has been a great conversation. Thanks so much. We’ve learned so much. And thanks for your transparency and just going through your story. First of all, I love the way your church is helping to meet community needs with housing, with mental health. And how you've reminded us as leaders, you know, we need to prepare, and preparation is essential, and spiritual preparation for the battles ahead, of prayer and devotion and self-reflection, being ready for what we know is going to be a challenge coming up because there always is. And I really appreciated how, when you got into a hard spot, at first you wanted to solve the problem yourself, and then you realized, “No. I need bring in the leadership team and explain and help them understand exactly where we are,” and how, through that vulnerability, you felt the support that you needed, really, to go ahead and to overcome the challenge that you were facing. And how we get into this situation as leaders, where, you know, our job is to solve the problems, and when that doesn't look like it's going to be solved, or that we're able to solve it, then that kind of puts us in a dark corner. And how we just need to trust that God is leading our steps, and we know that He will. This has just been a great conversation. You talked about the importance of knowing ourselves and being self-aware and understanding when our own behaviors are kind of leading us down a dark path. And then, of course, relationships, making sure that especially as we're working with the next generation to develop relationships, to be proximate with them, and being in relationship is a key. So, this has just been a great conversation.

How about something, a bottom line about what we've talked about that you'd like to share with our audience?

Geoffrey: Look straight through the vulnerability, straight through the suicide ideation, and the transparency, look straight through that and see the glory of God, the faithfulness of God. Look straight though all of that and see the faithfulness of God, that God has to strip every leader down to a place that they trust Him and Him alone. And that's what it took for me. It's going to take something for this leader, that leader, but you're going to get to a place—there's not a biblical character, and we're not comparing ourselves to biblical characters—there is not a biblical character in which God had to strip and look straight through that and see the faithfulness of God, the glory of God, and what God is trying to do in the earth through that person, him or her. That's what I would say, bottom line.

Al: Fantastic.

And Bishop, how do we connect with you?

Geoffrey: Well, I’d love for people, first of all, to get the book. I’d love for them to do a review. And if you're not going to give me five stars, don't bother. Keep it to yourself. Just do what you need to do. So get the book on all the places, Barnes & Noble, Amazon, and where have you. On all of these social-media platforms, it's BishopDudleyPhD, @BishopDudleyPhD, @BishopDudleyPhD. On all of the social-media platforms, you can get ahold of us. And if you're ever in the area, if you're ever in the area, come and see us. We're on the Illinois side of the river, St. Louis. Just keep on coming. You'll come to the bedroom community of O'Fallon, Illinois. And there we will be, right there near the Air Force base.

Al: Fantastic.

Well, Bishop Dudley, thanks so much for your contribution today. And most of all, I appreciate your vision for helping leaders be emotionally and spiritually healthy so that they can handle the storms of life. And thanks so for taking your time out today and speaking in the lives of so many leaders.

Geoffrey: Thank you. Glad to be here.

Al: Thanks so much for listening to my conversation with Bishop Dudley. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did.

You can find ways to connect with him and links to everything we discussed in the show notes and transcript at workplaces.org/podcast.

And if you have any suggestions for me about our podcast or have any questions on flourishing workplace cultures, please email me, al@workplaces.org.

And as you reflect on Bishop Dudley’s journey, ask yourself, “Where is God calling me to lead with more vulnerability, deeper faith, and greater purpose?” Don't wait for a crisis to clarify your calling. Begin today by investing in the spiritual and emotional health of your team, and by cultivating a culture where authenticity and transformation thrive. Let this be a moment. You take one faithful step toward flourishing, personally and organizationally.

And next week, what if the path to your most effective leadership runs straight through suffering and surrender? Well, next week on the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast, we sit down with Dr. Nicole Martin, the author of Nailing It, to explore how God uses hardship, not comfort, to shape successful Christian leaders. You'll discover why surrender is not weakness, but the key to strength; and how embracing suffering can lead to deeper impact, greater clarity, and lasting transformation. You won't want to miss this powerful conversation that could challenge, encourage, and reframe your view of what it means to truly lead like Christ.

Outro: The Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast is sponsored by Best Christian Workplaces. If you need support building a flourishing workplace culture, please visit workplaces.org for more information.

We'll see you again next week for more valuable content to help you develop strong leaders and build a flourishing workplace culture.