Transcript: How to Build a Resilient and Unbreakable Team // Warren Bird, Léonce B. Crump Jr

Intro: Is your leadership team tired of adopting and flexing after several years of pivoting due to the global pandemic? Well, today we talk with you about how you can infuse new energy and a foundation of resilience into your team so that you can meet the challenges of the future. Welcome to episode 354 of the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast, where we’ll focus on resilience and how to build an unbreakable team. Listen in to learn practical steps to grow in resilience.

Welcome: Welcome to the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast, your home for open, honest, and insightful conversations to help develop your leadership, your team, and build a flourishing workplace culture.

Al Lopus: Hello, I'm Al Lopus, the co-founder of the Best Christian Workplaces and author of the book Road to Flourishing: Eight Keys to Boost Employee Engagement and Well-Being. I'm passionate about helping Christian leaders like you create engaged, flourishing workplaces. And thanks for joining us today.

I'm delighted to welcome Warren Bird and Leonce Crump Jr. to the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast today. They’re seasoned leaders and coauthors, along with Ryan Hartwig, of The Resilience Factor: A Step-by-Step Guide to Catalyze an Unbreakable Team.

Throughout our conversation, you'll hear Warren and Leonce talk about what resilience is, why resilient teams are important today and for the future, the five C's that creates a winning purpose that drives resilience in teams, how to build trust, meeting rhythms that build resilient teams, and a focus on ABD, or always be developing, your leadership pipeline.

I think you're going to love this interview. But before we dive in, this episode is brought to you by at the Best Christian Workplaces Employee Engagement Survey. You can sign up today to discover the health of your organization's culture. Now is a great time to listen to your employees with our easy-to-administer online Engagement Survey by going to workplaces.org. Being a certified best Christian workplace improves your ability to attract more talented employees, build resilient teams, and keep them longer.

Also, hello to our new listeners. And thanks for joining us as we honor your investment of time by creating valuable episodes like this.

But let me tell you a little bit more about our guests today. Leonce Crump Jr. is an international speaker, former NFL athlete, and the co-founder and senior pastor of Renovation Church in Atlanta, Georgia. He's also the author of Renovate: Changing Who You Are by Loving Where You Are. He's a champion for the church's participation in focused and intentional culture renewal.

And you’ll probably know Warren Bird. He's the senior vice president of research and equipping for the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability, known as ECFA. Warren has previously been the director of research and intellectual capital development for the Leadership Network. He's an ordained minister. He's a seminary faculty member. He's a prolific author and previous guest on our podcast.

So Leonce and Warren, it's great to have you on the podcast today. We've had you on before, Warren, but Leonce, I'm looking forward to getting to know you and to know you through our conversation.

Leonce Crump Jr.: Looking forward to getting to know you as well, Al. I’m excited, actually, to also read your book, Road to Flourishing, and really looking forward to how that might impact and influence how we develop our teams here at the church.

Warren Bird: And Warren, here. The guy who wrote Road to Flourishing subtitled it about employee engagement and well-being, and I'm just delighted to talk about resilience as a key component to that well-being, especially coming out of the pandemic.

Al: Absolutely. And that's what I have found and why I thought you guys would be great on the podcast because of the way it connects very much to the work that we do.

So, your book Resilience Factor has come out in our post-pandemic world. And many Christian leaders are tired, and they've had to adapt and adjust for several years now. And for some leaders there's the hope maybe that we’ll get back to the way it used to be, you know, the normal life. And you’ve made the case that we need resilience because the world will continue to be marked by resilience. We're not going to go back to a normal life. The new world requires innovation, imagination, and resilience. So share with us your definition of resilience. Why is resilience so important to leaders and teams today and now into the future? Warren, let’s start with you.

Warren: Well, you can imagine the three of us working together on a book, one of whom is a former pro athlete, that there were lots of sports images, some of which didn't make it into the book. And one that we bandied about a lot was the boxing metaphor of resilience is after you've been punched in the face and knocked down and you get up and you're punched in the face again, do you have that resilience to keep getting up with the same energy and the same sense of hope and vitality as before you were first knocked down?

Now, we also did a lot of research and found that there are concepts that go with it. Like, for example, one recent study identified four characteristics of a resilient team: candor, resourcefulness, compassion, and humility. And so those are some of the ideas that we unpack, building up to, how can you get to the point that your team is so strong, it is unbreakable?

Al: Leonce, what would you add about this importance of resilience?

Leonce: I think the only thing I would add to Warren's wonderful unpacking of that, and particularly the hilarious and lengthy conversation we had about whether we would add a Mike Tyson quote to our book, the only thing I would add you alluded to already, and that is we have got to anticipate that the disruption we experienced through the COVID-19 pandemic and really all of the other related events during that season—there was financial insecurity; there was social instability—there have been and are a number of disruptive factors and forces that we are still navigating as leaders in every sphere. And so I think the—not “I think,” I know—that the need for resilience is paramount because the reality of the disruption in which we are existing is normal. It is not abnormal. And if you approach the world believing that disruption is a break from reality rather than understanding that it is reality, then you're going to be in a world of hurt. And so being able to weather and navigate that and stay energized, stay focused, keep your vision and mission clear, I think that's going to be paramount for every organization of every kind.

Al: Yeah. That's really great and helpful.

You know, your book includes eight movements where you take teams through practical steps to build resilience. And the first movement starts with prayer and assessment. And included in this movement is being willing to make some hard decisions, which includes maybe killing a few sacred cows. And I think we all know what those experiences are if we've been in leadership.

Leonce, in the book, you share some stories about Renovation Church and the prayer focus in the beginning of the pandemic, and then further along as you realized that, well, you're going to have to probably lay off some staff for financial reasons. And share how you and your team made those hard decisions and how you processed the decisions together.

Leonce: Yeah, very challenging time. I actually kind of believed right at the beginning of the pandemic, looking at the financial landscape, looking at the arc of where things were heading, that we would probably be in a situation where we're going to have to release some people to be able to remain viable and navigate the storm. And many of my contemporaries, very early on, they released, you know, 10, 15, 20% of their staff. We held on longer than most. That was by design.

But eventually, after several seasons, if you would, of prayer and fasting, we looked at the organization as a whole, and we said, “Okay. Everybody here is valuable. Everybody. Everyone a part of this organization is valuable. But in the season in which we find ourselves, who is most necessary for our sustainability and survivability through this season?” And so we prayed and we processed, and we prayed and we processed. And then, we made a list of every team member and every responsibility that we were carrying at that time. And it kind of became a, you know, “above the line, below the line” type of conversation. And unfortunately, my own wife ended up below the line. And so one of the most difficult things I've ever had to do was lay off my own wife, who was the co-founder of our church and who was a very viable part of our ministry and remained so even after she left staff.

Good news. I was actually able to hire her back this year.

Al: And so, Leonce, what you’re saying is, this wasn't a singular—you weren't the only one making these decisions. You were including others. Is that—that's what you were saying.

Leonce: Absolutely, yeah. We don’t make decisions in a vacuum. I don't think good leadership makes decisions in a vacuum. I think you consider the collaborative voices of your team. And everybody spoke into that. And actually, to my wife's credit—I'm going to continue to sing her praises—she actually raised her hand in a meeting and said, “I think I should be the first to go.” And we had three other team members kind of lay on the sword, so to speak, after all of these conversations and say, you know, “I see what we're doing and where we're going. And right now, my role, though valuable, is not necessary.” So everything was made together as a collaborative effort.

Al: Yeah. Fantastic. Thanks for clarifying.

Yeah, Warren, what do you have to add? I'm sure you've been in many situations over your career where you’ve had to make some hard decisions. Any thoughts on this?

Warren: I’d like to keep it current and think about what's happened coming out of the pandemic. An analogy is people have vacationed with a vengeance, in that all this pent-up energy, it's like, wow, we're really going to go gangbusters. And yet, by contrast, you don't see teams doing the same thing, saying, “Oh, we've been on quiet mode. You know, we've been holding back.” I don't know whether it's because of people are afraid of the quiet quittings or afraid of that it's kind of the buyer's market of getting employees. “I don't want to lose anyone.” But this idea of making a hard decision to raise the bar and to say, “Hey, we as a team, this is our moment to achieve things through God's work in us that we have never done before,” and to dream of what it could be like coming out of the pandemic, that this team is truly invincible, resilient, and every other parallel word we used, I don’t see those hard calls and hard decisions happening. I see more caution and fewer tough decisions.

Al: Hm. So it's time to raise the bar, as you say. I love that. And yeah, for teams to step up and to really say, “Okay. What's next? Let's be invincible. Let's do what needs to be done. Let's see what God is calling.” Yeah, I love your thoughts.

Well, you know, your focus on building resilient teams, not just individual leaders, and I love that focus of resilient teams and not just individual leaders. And—

Warren: And, Al, let me just jump in on that point. Reading news articles and surveys and all, the vast majority is on the resilient individual.

Al: Mm-hmm.

Warren: And like you say—

Al: Yeah.

Warren: —we're going for not the individual, but the team of individuals together.

Al: So really working on, how can a team be resilient and move forward?

You know, and Warren, you mentioned earlier, our Best Christian Workplace research shows that fantastic teams is just one of the eight essential factors for a flourishing workplace. And we know that fantastic teams create consensus, direction, and momentum to establish, grow, and sustain a flourishing culture. You know, a core part of building a resilient team is clarifying its purpose. And Warren, you talk about the five Cs, a practical framework for making sure that a whole team is working on a common purpose. Share with us those five Cs and why they're so important to a resilient team.

Warren: I will. And let me give you the importance first in that so often we think it's the leader leading the team because that person is standing up front and has a title and a name. But so often instead it is the momentum of the purpose, or lack thereof, behind the team that’s the real leader. So is your purpose as a team—and your team's purpose is different from your organizational or church mission statement, because if your team's purpose is the same as your mission statement, then what do you need any other teams for? You're doing it all. So what is the distinctive purpose of your team toward contributing to the whole? And is it—here come the five Cs—is it clear? Do you have a clear picture of value? Is it compelling? Do team members view the purpose as consequential? Does it address something that truly matters? So is it clear? Is it compelling? Is it challenging? To accomplish the purpose, is each member of the team required to contribute in a meaningful and interdependent way? Clear, compelling, challenging. Calling oriented? Does accomplishing the purpose help members accomplish God's calling on their lives and pursue their goals? And finally, is it consistently held? Do team members in a group truly know the group's purpose and pursue it with fervor?

And I say that as someone who's done team exercises and said, “Hey, everybody. Write down the purpose of your team,” and they write it down, and you hold it up. It's like, are you in the same room? Are you on the same planet? much less being on the same team. So that clarity of purpose and repeating the clarity of purpose can't be underscored enough in helping the team have the foundations necessary to become more resilient.

Al: Right.

Well, what do you have to add, Leonce? You've been on a lot of teams, including professional football teams. So what would you like to add about clarifying purpose?

Leonce: Yeah. One line from the book that I love is, we wrote, “When a team is clear on its purpose, nothing is impossible.” And leading into that line, I share a story that many people will be familiar with, when Vince Lombardi stood in front of a rather successful team and said, “This is a football,” to a team of professional football players. And what he was doing in that moment was reminding them that over and against all obstacles, distractions, chaos, goals, dreams, whatever you brought into this moment, the core purpose that we exist for is this ball right here and the game that is associated with it. And of course, that next year, they came back and they won the Super Bowl, 37 to 0.

And when I think of teams in any other context, it's really the same idea. I can't add much there. It's a very clear purpose that's defined and repeatable. And I would add to that, as Warren pointed out now about current state issues, that actually raises the bar and calls people up to the work that is in front of them. And recently we just had one of those conversations as a team, and I, basically, shared with our team, “Listen, I know what the data says, okay? I know what Carey Nieuwhof has put on his blog. Everybody's tired. Everybody's, you know, they're vacationing with a vengeance, as Warren just said. But is our calling still clear? Is our mission still clear? Is our purpose still clear? If that's the case, then we can't relax into the malaise that everybody else is relaxing into. In fact, we need to raise the bar. When need to raise the bar for our team. We need to raise the bar for our volunteers. We need to be clear on what it is we're here to do and how we're going to do it. And then we need to run toward that and trust the results to God.”

Al: Yeah. Yeah, the bar gets raised every year. Just doing the same as we did last year means we're really going backwards, in my book. Yeah.

So your book includes many practical exercises for teams, and let's just call that out to our listeners. If you're looking for exercises, you know, check this out. But, you know, because of these exercises, you really worked to build the culture and skills that are important for resilience. Yet when you're talking about building trust—and this is one of my favorite topics now, building trust—do you emphasize that trust is built in the trenches? You say that focusing on building trust doesn't build trust. And amen to that. You know, so many times our Employee Engagement Survey will say, “Well, as a leadership team, you need to build trust.” Well, it's never good to say, “Building trust is one of our focuses.” Trust is a byproduct of a team's focus and a pursuit of a common purpose, is what you're saying.

Warren, share some examples of building trust on a team through doing work together.

Warren: I will. But first I want to underscore when I read your chapter in your book, Al, I was, like, amen-ing. And I don't know from New York out to Washington State you could quite hear it. But this is so pivotal. And you talk about exercises. We don't have exercises like trust falls and all that, that are wonderful bonding experiences. But it's the little wins that build the trust. It's that next step into psychological safety on a team where I feel I can be honest and vulnerable that build the trust. It's doing something together that ends up better than any of us could have done alone that builds that trust in the idea of a team. So, yes, we actually initially titled the book 40 Days to a Better Team and that you do each day. And then we thought nobody could process in that way. But there is a sequence of continually building one thing on another that you look back in a week, a month, a quarter, a year later, you go, “Man, have our trust levels deepened, and we are far more effective as a result.”

Al: Yeah. Working side by side.

Leonce, what do you have to add about building trust?

Leonce: Yeah. I think of it as a foxhole. You know, when you go into the military, which my brother served faithfully in the U.S. Navy, and we would talk about the bonds that are formed. One, because you have a common purpose. And two, your life is literally on the line to have that other guy's back or that other gal’s back. And so I think of that analogy all the time in regard to this and thinking, you know, it's really in the foxhole where I know I need you and you need me, and we're not going to get out of this unless we get out of it together, that real trust is built. And it was the same way in a locker room. It was same way in the wrestling room, when I wrestled. Our bond was not around trust falls and, you know, sharing deep secrets over marshmallows. It was formed and forged through a common purpose and all of the challenge that comes with trying to move anything from here to there with a group of people.

Al: Yeah.

I trust you’re enjoying our podcast today. We’ll be right back after an important word for leaders.

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Al: Welcome back to Leonce Crump Jr. and Warren Bird.

Right. Working together shoulder to shoulder, and seeing things happen positively does. Yeah. Great, great stories.

Let's talk about another topic that is a hot topic in organizational life today, and that's meetings. And meetings are one way that teams get work done, and yet a lot of meetings aren't useful or well run. And some recent research, I was just looking at the Harvard Business Review, and they say in a typical workweek, a lot of leaders, executives, spend 23 hours a week in meetings, or at least 11 to 15 meetings per week, and many, even more. So, okay. So how can teams improve their meetings and focus on what really matters? You know, Leonce, how do you handle this in your church setting? You know, what are some of the essential questions that you ask when somebody says, “Well, let's have a meeting”? You know, so what makes a great meeting?

Leonce: Well, the first question I ask is, why do we need to have a meeting?

Al: Yeah.

Leonce: That's kind of my base operating system is to ask, could this be an email? Could it be a phone call? Could it be a Slack message? Does it need to be a meeting? And one thing that we write in the book is you should only call a meeting if it is the single best option to get done what needs to get done. And if it's not the best option, then there are a variety of other options to be able to communicate effectively.

Now, I am actually in the camp, more than probably most church leaders, I believe we need more meetings, not less. But they need to be very specific meetings. And so for us, we have a daily check in. It's only about five minutes. It's a standing meeting. “What are you guys doing today? What do you need from me?” Once a week, we have all staff that's primarily about worship and spiritual formation and kind of a global view of what's happening in the church and making sure we have interconnectedness there. We have our tactical meeting, which is just our leadership team, and that's where we go over the goals, and we review the marks, and we review the money, and we review the budget to make sure that we're all aligned. And then once a quarter, we have an offsite, and that offsite is for long-range vision and looking toward the next ministry season and making sure that we don't have anything around the corner that's going to catch us off guard. And outside of that, we don't have many meetings, because those meetings are so focused and so strategic and so specific that they really cover the bases, and phone calls and Slack messages and emails are suitable for everything else.

Al: Yeah. Having that rhythm of daily check ins, weekly all staffs, having tactical leadership meetings, and then, quarterly offsites. Yeah. Keeping focused on getting things done, and then otherwise, or basically what you're doing is by having those meetings, you're eliminating a whole bunch of other meetings that aren't necessary. Yeah.

Leonce: That’s exactly right.

Al: Great insight. Yeah.

Well, Warren, I know over your time, you've attended and led your share of meetings in your career. So what do you see are some of the keys to better meetings?

Warren: One that Leon's just modeled is having a very clear purpose agenda for why we're having this particular meeting at this particular time and being willing to challenge any stereotypes to say, “Well, we're meeting just because we always meet on this time,” or “We always fill an hour with this meeting,” so how to fill the meeting. No. What is the agenda? And always end with who's doing what by when. And generally, there's someone gifted on your team who loves that kind of tallying, organizing, accountability, and can, even during the meeting, fill in a chart or table or notes or something to that effect so that the end is very clear. Everyone walks out of the meeting knowing what my responsibility is by when and to whom. And know that most people do not like meetings, and there is a terribly negative stereotype of meetings.

So again, this is the bar where we're asking fundamental questions of why are we meeting, and are we really a team meeting? So often, so many groups that call themselves a team are not a team. They're just a working group, where one person goes in and gives, “I need you to do this. I need you to do this. I need you to do this. Give me an opinion on that,” which really means just validate what I want to do anyway. And now we're done, and you go out. That missed the value of collaboration and of bringing out the best in most people, and for that matter, having a high morale other than the leader who feels good about offloading a bunch of stuff to other people.

Al: Yeah. And yeah, there's great training and research about the difference between a group of people and a team, as you've said. And when you're a true team and understanding what a true team is, you're really highlighting many of those elements in our discussion. But knowing what a true team is can perform at such higher levels versus just a group of people. No question.

Warren: Amen. And that's why we drew from the best literature out there and the best research out there on teams, and yet we translated it into very usable action insights.

Leonce: Yeah.

Al: Well, you know, of course, resilient teams aren't static. You know, things change. And as leaders, we always want to be developing the next generation of leaders by investing in people. Again, one of my hotspots.

Leonce, you share the acronym—I like this—A, B, D: always be developing. And so how did this make a difference in your own life? I'm sure you've had many mentors, coaches, and a lot of people investing in you. And how are you taking this forward in your own leadership role, in your church, in your ministry?

Leonce: Yeah. Actually, it was one of my mentors who taught me that acronym. Very early in my leadership journey, he pulled me aside, and he said that the way that you build something lasting and sustainable is to always be thinking about the fourth generation, right? Who are you developing that's going to develop, that's going to develop? And that has been something that I've carried forward into every leadership environment I've ever been in. So even, you know, my staff, they're all raised up from the inside. They’re guys and gals that I've developed since they started at our church, and they are developing others. And that is the only real cultural no-no with Renovation church, you know, among the things that should be, things that violate the Bible, but as far as our organizational culture, the only thing that can really get you fired is if I catch you doing ministry versus developing people for ministry, because I don't hire people to do ministry. I hire people to develop others and release them into their gifts and into their ministry. And Ephesians 4 is our paradigm for that. And so this is just been our mantra for some time. We ask, you know, as part of that tactical meeting, one of the questions that I ask our leadership team is, who's in your pipeline right now? Who are you developing? Who are the people that you are helping to mine their gifts and really become that next generation of leaders? Because that's the only way that we build a sustainable organization.

Al: Yeah. Same principle in discipleship, isn't it? But yeah, yeah. Fourth generation.

Warren: Well, actually, it is discipleship. Leonce alluded to Ephesians 4, 11 and 12 verses, equipping the saints to do the work of the ministry. And earlier, when he said about the four generations, that's 2 Timothy 2:2, the things you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses commit to reliable people who will be qualified to train others also. That is a four-generation development. And I would go so far as to say that the health of your leadership is in direct proportion to the percentage of leaders in development, known leaders in development, not people who are taking in knowledge that one day they might use somewhere, but who are seen as, “No, I'm doing this. I'm in this group because I'm going to be the next whatever,” or “I'm going to take on this leadership role,” or “I am taking it on. And I'm very motivated to learn because I don't know what I'm doing.”

So how does this tie to resilience? This is the reshaping of the paradigm of what happens in the life of a healthy church and in a healthy leadership team and leadership development always, “Who am I bringing along?” is a key central question.

Al: Yeah. Let me ask our listeners right now, who is in your pipeline? Leonce brought the perfect question, who is in your pipeline, and who are you developing for the fourth generation? Exactly.

Warren, what would you like to add? Anything else about investing in future leaders?

Warren: That the topic of the resilience factor is not a deadline. Like, “Okay. I got Christmas coming up. I got Mother's Day. I got Easter,” that motivates us to say, “I got to get this done by…” And it's so easy, Al—just as with your book—to say, “Well, you know, we could work on the caliber of the quality of our culture and challenging our team to higher levels.” But in reality, you do the upfront work today, and the benefits are long term. Yes, it is time, energy, and focus to say, “How do we get better at doing team, at teaming, at truly being a team, at rising to new challenges as a team?” That’s hard work and requires focus and requires people to say, “We're going to make it a priority for this season.” And I would say and the book would say, the sooner you do so, the better, the fruit, the spiritual fruit, that comes in the lives of the people who are leading, as well as in the lives of those who are leading and influencing.

Al: Well, great input. You know, we've learned so much from your conversation. It just warms my heart to think about all of this. And again, that's so integrated with having a flourishing workplace culture of resilience.

Warren, you really started us off. How do you define resilience? It’s, well, after you've been punched in the face and knocked down, do you have the resilience to get back up with the same energy? And it takes candor, resourcefulness, compassion, and humility for people to really develop and to build this muscle of resilience. And while we're still navigating COVID, we need to really step up. And again, that our teams need to get away from being vacationed with a vengeance, but to raise the bar. And that’s just really been motivational for me to listen to your encouragement, both of you, as you've encouraged us to do that. And then the five Cs of a resilient team. What a great focus on for each of us as we think about the teams that we lead right now and how we need to build momentum with purpose and how purpose is really the key for building this momentum by having a clear, compelling, challenging focus with a calling that's consistently held with the team and how, again, it's got to be clear. And when you have those five CS, nothing is impossible. But, also, in the same process, I just love the way you focused on building trust, how building trust is something that we do together, where we're in the foxhole. We're working together shoulder by shoulder, side by side, and getting things done, and that builds trust. But then, we talked about this topic of meetings. Again, just great insights. Leonce, your meeting schedule, your sequence is a great example of how every organization, every team, needs to have its own sequence. I love the stand-up meetings and the rest of it that you talked about. And then, always be developing. Yes. Be thinking about the fourth generation, not just those that are next behind you, but then the fourth generation, raising up your staff, developing others for ministry, not focusing on so much doing the ministry, but how are your leaders developing others for ministry? Leonce, that was really insightful. And then, Warren, your point, it's discipleship. We need to be developing pipelines of leaders so that churches can grow. And I think one of the things that really are keeping churches and ministries and even Christian-owned business stagnant is that they're not thinking about the pipeline and the next leaders and developing them, because, you know, we can grow when we got capacity, when leaders are in a position and developed to contribute.

So, wow, this has been a great conversation. I appreciate it so much.

Let me ask each of you—I know we've had this conversation—but what's on your mind as we talk about these things that you'd like to share with our listeners? Leonce, you first.

Leonce: Yeah. I think the only thing I would add to the end of the conversation here is encouragement. I was in prayer one Saturday morning—I'll be brief—and I was whining a little bit. Can I confess that? Is this a safe place? I was whining a little bit about, you know, where things are and everything, that we'd navigated through COVID and asking the Lord, really, “What do You want from me?” And you know, I'm Presbyterian, so don't get freaked out when I say I heard the Lord say to me, “I chose you for such a time as this.” And if I could sit down across from every leader right now of every organization, that's what I would say to them is, yes, it's hard. In fact, John Maxwell said this is the hardest time in his lifetime to be a pastor or a leader of any kind. But for whatever reason, in His sovereignty, the Lord chose us to lead right now. And there's something to be grateful for in that and really something to just feel a sense of honor about, that God would choose us. Who are we that God would choose us to lead through such a challenging season? And so every leader who's listening, I hope I can encourage you in saying, God put you here for this time for a reason, because there's something in you that is uniquely suited to lead in this challenging time. And with Him, with the right team, you'll find that thing, and hopefully, it’ll inspire you to raise the bar and go forward.

Al: Warren?

Warren: I just want to underscore Leonce's point with a story, the opening story from the book. Paradise, California, you may remember, there was a series of fires that burned the town to a crisp. Nothing was left. Cars melted. The majority of businesses were burned down. People, the majority, were without homes. And so many people wanted to just move somewhere else and start over. But at least one church said no. For such a time as this—the Esther line—God has put us here. We have to—we're not circling the wagons and just caring for our people, as important as that was. But there is opportunity out there, that if we reconfigure what it means to be a team, because they were all grieving and having to cope with an awful lot of loss individually, but if we go through this together, would God give us the strength and the wisdom and the blessing and favor such that we could not only care for our own, but we could be that beacon of light in our community as never before? And that's just what happened. And it tells the story of kind of how they had to redefine what it meant to be a team, how they had to rise to a new level of challenge, how they had to keep redefining. And yet look at the good that came out of it. And that's what the scriptures say in Matthew 5, that people are going to look at our good works and praise our Father in heaven and say, “I thank God for you. So, by the way, tell me more about this God that serves and that motivates you to love and work together as a team in a way that's a model to us.” So your team is a witness, not only in its impact, in its spiritual witness to the world.

Al: That's a good word, Warren. Thank you.

Well, Leonce and Warren, I want to thank you for your contribution today. And if listeners want to learn more about the book and access some practical tools and templates, they can go to resiliencefactor—that’s one word—resiliencefactor.info. Resiliencefactor.info.

And so, guys, most of all, I appreciate your commitment to equipping leaders and teams so that they can accomplish the work that the Kingdom of God has for them. And thank you for taking your time out today and speaking into the lives of so many listeners. Thank you.

Warren: Well, Al, we are just coming alongside you. You pioneered this Best Christian Workplaces and this idea of a healthy culture. And we're just adding one more underscoring of the pieces of a healthy culture that are needed today.

Al: Absolutely. Because it focuses, it just leads right into fantastic teams, one of the eight factors. No question. Yeah.

Leonce?

Leonce: Yeah. Thank you so much, again, for having us. And I'll underscore what Warren said. Thank you for paving the way for us to continue to speak into this space. And we really are hopeful that this will be a great contribution to all Christian workplaces, including the church.

Al: Yeah. Resiliencefactor.info. Yeah. Go get the book. Go get the book on Amazon, whatever, wherever you need to get it. But I encourage you. Thank you.

Thanks so much for listening to our conversation with Leonce and Warren. And I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. It's just very energizing to listen to both of them.

You can find ways to connect with them and links to everything we discussed in the show notes and transcript at workplaces.org/podcast.

And if you have any suggestions for me about our podcast or have any questions on a flourishing workplace culture, please email me at al@workplaces.org.

And leaders, if you want to improve your leadership, expand your organization's impact for good, and see greater faithfulness in our broader culture, help us achieve our goal to see 1,000 flourishing Christian-led workplaces in the year 2030. So to help, please share this podcast with another leader or launch a project in your own organization to discover and improve the health of your workplace culture. If you're interested in learning more, go to workplaces.org and request a sample report.

Outro: The Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast is sponsored by Best Christian Workplaces. If you need support building a flourishing workplace culture, please visit workplaces.org for more information.

We'll see you again next week for more valuable content to help you develop strong leaders and build a flourishing workplace culture.

Al: Next week we have special guests, Peter Greer and Jesse Casler of Hope International. I can't wait to hear how they focus on developing Christian character and leaders. I know you'll benefit from listening to their insights.