Transcript: Level Up Your Leadership with a 360 Review and Transparency // Keith Speaks, Hales Corners Lutheran Church

Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast

Level Up Your Leadership with a 360 Review and Transparency

February 27, 2023

Keith Speaks

Intro: You've heard me say, “Feedback is the breakfast of champions.” Well, are you receiving feedback that will help you develop the leadership necessary to meet tomorrow's challenges? Well, listen in today, in our conversation with a leader who's been open to 360 feedback for the last ten years and has flourished.

Welcome: Welcome to the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast, your home for open, honest, and insightful conversations to help develop your leadership, your team, and build a flourishing workplace culture.

Al Lopus: How can ministry leaders be sure their leadership is effective over time, and how can they be sure that they're meeting the biblical call to shepherd the flock that God has entrusted to them? We believe in the importance of regular feedback from those they are leading. That's why Best Christian Workplace offers a Leadership 360 assessment that provides a practical way to help leaders grow. The model is based on three overriding leadership characteristics: character, competence, and chemistry. Yet one of the surprises that I've encountered in the 20 years that we've worked with Christian leaders is the amount of resistance from leaders about receiving 360 feedback.

So today on the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast, we’re going to learn from a senior pastor of a large church who’s been using the 360 for a decade. And I’m delighted to welcome Keith Speaks to the podcast today. Keith is the senior pastor of Hales Corners Lutheran Church in Wisconsin.

Hi, Keith.

Keith Speaks: Hi, Al, and hi to y’all. It is an honor to be with you guys.

I want to thank you, brother, for your friendship, for Best Christian Workplaces Institute as well, and especially for this 360-degree review that we've been doing now. It has been a real blessing to me and to us as a ministry, so thank you.

Al: Well, thank you, Keith. And, you know, it has been a great experience working with you over these years and now over a decade.

And well, give us a little introduction, give us an overview of your current role and responsibilities as we get into this conversation.

Keith: So I am the senior pastor of a large church; a large school; a really large local, regional, and global mission-focused ministry and mission. And because at the heart of this entire thing, I believe that if every single thing we do doesn't result in facilitate mission, we're probably missing the mark and what God had in mind for doing that.

Some of the signature ministries above and beyond school and worship and mission are things like care ministries. There are 25 support groups that are part of the ministry here in this place; a great, big housing ministry that God has enabled growing; discipleship ministry that we're really excited about and really trying to pour ourselves into holistically. And then underneath the umbrella, there are three other separate 501(c)(3) corporations that make up Hales Corners Lutheran Church. And in our tribe, being the senior pastor over that, with policy-based governance, means that I sit in all of that and equip and lead and inspire staffing that is going to lead all of that together for the sake of Christ and the mission and the ministry. So that's kind of us.

I preach probably most of the time out of all of the pastors that we have here. Preach, teach, marry, bury, counsel, those kinds of things are also a part of what I do, but leading teams of people and trying to inspire teams of people and cast vision for teams of people and the board of directors as well is really at the heart of what I do.

Al: Yeah. Well, the Leadership 360 survey combines real-time feedback and development goals to create the best path forward for leadership growth. And you started using the 360 assessment in 2012, as I look back.

Keith: Yeah.

Al: Wow. And I remember, Keith, you were just coming in as the new senior pastor at Hales Corners. So what really caused you to choose to do an assessment, and how did the feedback from the 360 help you as you were starting this new ministry at the church?

Keith: Yeah. I think that for all of us who make transition from one ministry to another, when you make transition, the learning curve is large, no matter what you think you know, and no matter what you bring with you and your bag of tricks and your experiences from the past. But coming to this place, the learning curve was, and, frankly, still is, great. And so I needed tools to come alongside for the sake of discovery, for the sake of equipping, for the sake of those kinds of things. And in my experiences before, there have been other groups and other efforts, but this evaluation and this feedback opportunity was something that we were looking for. And the 360 review was exactly what was needed, and God blessed it greatly.

So we were looking at it both from a perspective of what I knew I needed, and then also what my corporate-leadership board of directors knew that they would have as an onboarding process for somebody who was going to come in to a chair that they would be comfortable with.

The 360 was one of the tools that helped me, and still helps me, frankly, continue to grow because you never figure it out. One of the great things about being the senior pastor of a ministry like this is that there's always new things to discover. There's always new seasons of life to lead through and to watch God show you what He's got in mind in the midst of all those things. So 360 has been one of the key things along the way to help me get up underneath what it was going to take to be the senior pastor here.

Al: I remember when you came in. Gosh, you were faced with a number of just remarkable challenges.

Keith: Right.

Al: And, you know, you lived through those. And again, over the years, you've continued to use the Leadership 360 every year or two. And one of the things that I really enjoy in having facilitated many of these conversations is that you bring your board chair in to participate in the debriefing. So share with us why you've chosen to be, you know, that transparent—you've invited your board into the discussion—and how does it help results and good governance for the church and all of the work that you're doing there?

Keith: I've had, now, during the time we've done this, I've had three different people sit in those times together with me. I think in each one of those situations, the personality of the congregational leader was different, and so it made our conversation different; it made the feedback different; it also made the need to continue to be consistent in the 360 just really imperative. And then this idea of setting up a culture for the entire congregation, the mission and the ministry that we do, that is transparent and authentic because policy-based governance rises and falls on trust in the chair of the senior pastor. And so in order to facilitate that most effectively, I needed this to be a collaborative effort. That’s why it’s called 360, right? It’s a collaborative effort of giving feedback and growth, and it's just invaluable. But I think it's got to be headed into from that perspective.

Al: Yeah. You know, Keith, you just brought up something I really haven't thought about much, and that is so having a consistent tool. And again, I know I remember, you know, your three different elder board chairs that sat in. So having a consistent tool, even though they're different, their personalities are different, but having the consistent tool, I can see where, yeah, that was helpful to kind of keep things going.

Well, you know, your experience using the Leadership 360 assessment over a number of years illustrates how it can really help provide follow up that influences your leadership over time. So give us an example of a specific insight—now here’s the transparency part, right?—

Keith: Yeah, right.

Al: —give us an example of a specific insight that one of the recent 360s helped you to implement a change in your leadership style or maybe a specific practice that you do.

Keith: Part of the journey in all of this that I really have enjoyed is that the very structure of it sets itself up around a set of top tens and a set of bottom tens, and we have been very blessed to have my bottom tens not to be crisis oriented. We've been blessed by the things I do worst. But out of those things, you find common themes over years.

And mine have always been two things: work-life balance. People don't think I'm very healthy, and they're probably right. Work-life balance. And then availability and connection. Well, that sets up a conundrum for how it is that you are going to navigate a development piece after a 360-degree review, where you're saying, “What do I need to get better about?” when you're asking me to have more work-life balance, but you also want me more available. And so out of that, we were able to develop time with my teams around, “Hey, I have this pastor who is a great man of God doing this set of things connected to school,” and so I can talk to all of those teams and say, “This pastor is going to be the main conduit for you to the pastoral office in this place.” And that gives me a little bit more balance because I'm not expected anymore, although that's not entirely true, not expected anymore to be involved in day-to-day school operational kinds of things as I had been before. And so we developed that. It's always a work in progress because in this place, like many of our places, I think that quality time with the senior pastor is a very coveted kind of thing, but there's only so much of me to go around. So that would be an example, I think.

Al: Yeah. I think, Keith, you know, as I think about the feedback, you know, there you are. You're the senior pastor of the church, you've got the school, and yeah, you were a little more removed from the school, so you were able to use the feedback as a tool to address those kinds of issues. And without the feedback, you wouldn't have really probably known that that was an issue, was it.

Keith: Right.

Al: Yeah.

Well, so you talked about it, the bottom ten issues that would come up. But I just want to congratulate you again. Over and over, year after year, your spiritual leadership just always ended up on the top of the list, and that was always exciting for me to see.

Keith: Oh, praise God.

Al: Yeah. Receiving feedback on our leadership can make us feel maybe a little vulnerable sometimes, and sometimes the feedback highlights positive aspects that encourage us, just as we've talked about. Sometimes there’s the hard insights that need to be dealt with in our leadership style, and some of our listeners might be unsure as to whether or not a 360 could be helpful for them. You know, and as I mentioned at the beginning, you know, the controversy that I've run into over time has kind of surprised me at different times.

So let's just really address it. Why would a leader seek out this kind of feedback? You know, and maybe there's a mindset that will help a leader listen and learn from a Leadership 360. Keith, what are your thoughts on that?

Keith: Well, first of all, Al, I think about the book of Proverbs. I mean, the book of Proverbs is, from cover to cover, full of a phrase that basically says, “A wise man seeks counsel.” And I can live in isolation, in the illusion that everything's okay, when out there, in the pews or in the offices or in the congregation, there may be people who are feeling like they don't have access to me to say, lovingly speaking the truth in love, what they need to say to me, or to even say the wrong things that they need to say to me about how they think I'm messing up, because that's entirely possible. There's only one person perfect in the place, and it ain't me.

And so this idea of understanding that feedback is just imperative for my growth and the growth of the culture of the congregation and leading from the top and giving this 360-degree-review opportunity, even if you got—look, I think over time, I've probably taken, in the time we've done this together, I've probably taken two that were above and beyond, but I knew exactly what that was about, and I knew exactly who it came from so that I could de-escalate those kinds of things and treat them more clinically from a pastoral perspective, and we could end up giving God glory and praise in the midst of all of that.

And then, again, Proverbs. This Proverbs 27:6 passage just has been really strong for me. This idea of “wounds from a friend can be trusted” has been just really important.

Al: I trust you’re enjoying our podcast today. We’ll be right back after an important word for leaders.

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And now back to today’s special guest.

Wow, good feedback, yeah. Proverbs. It’s good for Solomon, it’s good for us, right?

Keith: That’s right.

Al: So the Leadership 360 assessment includes some open-ended questions, where people within your circle of influence can include suggestions or observations about your leadership. And you mentioned how already you've probably run into a couple that surprised you, a couple of comments. So how do you process these insights? How do you decide where you need to make changes in your own interactions with your team as a result of this kind of open-ended feedback?

Keith: I will confess to you that over time I have had to develop a discipline that I haven't always had. And before, early on in ministry and before I sat down in this chair, I would get seven compliments and one negative comment. And what do you think I stewed on and made me lose sleep all the time? It was that one negative critique or whatever that was. And so there's a discipline that's necessary for all of us, I think, where you don't give any more or less weight to a comment than wisdom says is prudent. And so to be able to discipline yourself. You open yourself up to a 360 review, along with that comes the need for that maturity and discipline so that you can look at it clinically and understand that at the heart of this thing, I have an impossible job. And not just because yea, but by the grace of God go I, also because the ministry description that I operate out of is not humanly possible. And so it's a challenge.

But I will also tell you that it's a marathon, not a sprint. And so along the way, to be able to really get into understanding what the congregation, what the leadership, what my teams of people need from me and what's right, what's possible, and how can it be accomplished for the good of the kingdom, and how can I gain discernment around not only what is possible, but what does God have in mind for the chair that I sit in for the sake of the King and the kingdom is just really important. And every one of the team alongside believes that they're part of the mission and the ministry is the most important thing that we do, and I wouldn't want to have it any other way so that if they want to give input to me about my connection to them and what they're doing, we're going to be a lot better off if I can do that successfully, even if I have to take a shot along the way from time to time.

Al: And I think, you know, Keith, as we've had these discussions with your board chairs over the years, having a facilitated process also helps with that, don't you think?

Keith: I really do.

Al: Yeah. And it helps you process some of those comments. And I found pastors take it the hardest, quite frankly, of other leaders because of your heart for the people. So that's great advice. It's a marathon, not a sprint; and seek wisdom.

Well, now you've been using the Leadership 360 for 10 years and, you know, can you look back and see some ways that your leadership has maybe has changed and transformed over the years? I know you've been through a number of seasons. You know, we've been through COVID. That was a season. So how is the continued emphasis on assessment and learning helped you to set growth goals and develop as a leader?

Keith: I think one of the things—we talked about it earlier—this idea of a consistent evaluative feedback loop that you can really count on in the midst of walking down the middle of the valley between great crisis on one side as a mountaintop and great blessing on the other side as a mountaintop, and being able to walk down the middle of all of that. One of the things that allows you to do that is a feedback tool like 360. And it has also helped me over time really get my head around this idea of not being in isolation and developing a discipline to help me get out of my own head, because as I process stuff, if the Holy Spirit and the Word of God don't set the stage for that, and good counsel from brothers and sisters in Christ, and so surrounding myself with that and having this be one of those tools has been great. So the equipment, the experiences that I've gained in all of this have been really great for us to help me get there.

And then, just to realize over time that in the seasons, from one thing to another, to remember that Almighty God hasn't brought us this far just to bring us this far. For the sake of the King and the kingdom, He's got bigger and better things in mind. And then, the tools that I have today are not sufficient for the things that are going to come at us down the road. I have to be a lifelong learner, and this is one of the introspective ways for me to learn from one season to another. And it's also informed a leadership style for me that in the beginning was probably less secure and now is much more permission giving, championing, walking alongside some of the most amazing people I've ever met in my life, who are doing great work for the sake of the King.

Al: Yeah. Developed a leadership style. Wow, that’s great, Keith.

One of the areas that we consider on the Leadership 360 is spiritual vitality, you know, one of the core competencies. And, you know, as you're leading and pouring yourself out into others as a senior pastor, how do you maintain your own spiritual vitality? And I know you've done this consistently because your peers, your board says, “Yeah, spiritual vitality is a strength.” So how do you equip your staff and others and yourself to continue to serve?

Keith: I tell you what, Al, I think it's, again, it's a seasonal thing. I think that we could really examine when we do this 360 review every year, and I could find the time during the course of the year where my vitality scores in terms of spiritual vitality would not have been as high. And I think that going through the valleys of all of that—this may be inappropriate for your listeners—but there are times when I'm just exhaustipated. I'm too exhausted to give a crap. And there are things in my life where I just feel burnt out from time to time. But I also reach times where this new thing for me has been identified. It is that my soul is exhausted, you know. So to the very core of who I am as a child of the King, I'm exhausted.

And so one of the things that has helped me is to identify that in the seasons where it's happening and then to develop ways for the Lord to bring me back up out of that. The idea of the post-COVID struggle with burnout that a lot of us feel is real. And so diving into other kinds of spiritual, physical, relational, emotional kinds of things to deal with my exhaustion is just imperative for me. And it has borne fruit over time. I'm excited about what God has in front of us, and the energy is up and ready to go. But it's a journey.

Al: You know, I like what you said. First of all, you identify it. And so that's self-awareness is such a key part of leadership. Yeah, good for you.

You know, at Best Christian Workplaces we serve many churches, both with our Employee Engagement Surveys and Leadership 360s. And some are more recently formed churches; others have a long history. Well, Hales Corners, you know, you started in 1929, and the school started in 1960. So you’re 63 years into the school and many more for that for the church. You know, as you lead at Hales Corners, how do you honor the past and then lead into the future in a way that encourages people to continue growing in their faith life and continuing the ministry and outreach that you've got?

Keith: I think that one of the most important things that has been from the very beginning of my time here for me and for my predecessor is that I stand on the shoulders of a great man of God, who did a great job of leading this congregation to become, in our tribe, the largest LCMS church in the country. He and I were both really heavily invested in providing at the foot of the cross all glory to God, providing a success story for the church when we really don't have a lot of success stories about transition from the past to the present. We have a lot more across denominational lines. I think we have a lot more tragedies than we have success stories. And so understanding that every move of God and everything that was that I inherited, I want to honor that and give thanks to God for those upon whose shoulders I stand.

And then to realize that for such a time as this, Almighty God has given us the awe and the privilege of being the church in the world today. And we live in a time when nobody has anything worth hearing to say other than God himself. And we have the honor and the privilege of being His mouthpiece, His hands, His feet. So everything we do misses the mark unless it results in equipping God's people for mission in the world, everything from our worship, everything from that to our school to our discipleship. If discipleship just ends up having God's people know more Bible, well, knowledge puffs up, but it's love that builds up, and love is not love unless it’s expressed, right? So that idea of really pouring into, standing on the shoulders of those who come before me and then also being really excited about the fact that Jesus would say to us again, “In the world you're going to have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world,” in John 16:33.

Al: Yeah. Preach it, brother. That's all I can say. Absolutely.

Yeah, well, you say really an important thing: honoring the past and then building on the past for the future. And again, you say a lot of truth, “We don't have a lot of succession stories.” And boy, that's great that you've got now two of them at Hales Corners. And so honoring the past but really looking to the future with excitement and challenge.

Well, Keith, this has been great. Really enjoyed the conversation. We've learned so much. I just think back of, again, how you started. You came into a new situation. It was a steep learning curve. You had a number of challenges that you were addressing all at the same time, and yet you were able to use this feedback to learn and grow and to become even more effective in your leadership. Your transparency over three different elder board chairs over the last ten years and how this has been a great tool. The 360’s been a consistent tool for you to kind of manage the relationship that you've had with your elder board and to really be a consistent presence. We've talked about the top tens and the bottom tens and opportunities for growth. And it's been a pleasure to help facilitate some of those conversations with your elder chairs, but really just loved the way you've exhibited and shown spiritual leadership over that time. Your comments about the maybe the negative comment and open-ended feedback is really helpful to really seek the wisdom of, “What does that mean? And let's put that in perspective.” I mean, just in your transparency around spiritual vitality and how that ebbs and flows, but keeping yourself fit from a spiritual standpoint is really, really critical.

This has just been a great conversation. What would you like to add? What's a bottom-line thing that you'd like to add that we've talked about?

Keith: Oh, first of all, just my thanks, Al, for you pouring into me and us over the last 10 to 12 years. We have been blessed. And I would just also say to you that if you guys ever need us, ever need me, we're in because we have been so blessed by the 360 by Best Christian Workplaces Institute and by our partnership together. It has been a great thing.

Al: Wow, thanks, Keith. Well, let me thank you for all of your contributions. Thanks for taking your time out. Again, having worked with you, I appreciate your commitment to grow as an effective pastor as you lead your congregation, as you lead your school, as you lead the entire ministry to bring the Good News to your community. So thanks for taking your time out today and speaking into the lives of so many listeners.

Keith: Thank you.

Outro: The Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast is sponsored by Best Christian Workplaces. If you need support building a flourishing workplace culture, please visit workplaces.org for more information.

We'll see you again next week for more valuable content to help you develop strong leaders and build a flourishing workplace culture.