Transcript: The Best of Certified Best Christian Workplaces // Cary Humphries, Giselle Jenkins, Best Christian Workplaces

Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast

“The Best of Certified Best Christian Workplaces”

June 26, 2023

Cary Humphries and Giselle Jenkins

Intro: Do you wonder, “Who are some of the best-of-the-best Christian workplaces?” Well, today on episode 343, I've asked BCW’s consulting directors Giselle Jenkins and Cary Humphries to join me as we highlight some of the lessons learned from our work over the years.

Welcome: Welcome to the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast, your home for open, honest, and insightful conversations to help develop your leadership, your team, and build a flourishing workplace culture.

Al Lopus: Hello, I'm Al Lopus, the co-founder of the Best Christian Workplaces and author of the award-winning book Road to Flourishing: Eight Keys to Boost Employee Engagement and Well-Being. And I'm passionate, as you know, about helping Christian leaders create engaged, flourishing workplaces. And thanks for joining us today.

What can we learn from organizations that have grown and thrived by focusing on a flourishing workplace culture? Well, today we'll hear about some of the great organizations that represent the different types of ministry partners that Best Christian Workplaces comes alongside. They’re Christian-led businesses, Christian nonprofits, schools, universities, and churches that are bearing fruit in business and ministry as they create healthy workplaces where their staff is engaged and excited about their work.

In fact, as we were preparing for this podcast, it was hard to narrow down the list of the “best of” organizations. We could have talked about many more flourishing workplaces. We'll provide a sampling here and the leadership lessons that have come from each of these organizations.

We'll continue to feature great stories on future podcasts, but be sure that you've subscribed to the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast. You don't want to miss any of the inspirational and helpful content. So thanks for subscribing.

I've asked Cary Humphries and Giselle Jenkins to join me today as we talk about excellence in Christian-led organizations. Giselle and Cary are consulting directors with BCW. They both have rich leadership experiences in business and ministry and work with many of our ministry partners to facilitate their journeys to flourishing.

Best Christian Workplaces has now been serving Christian-led organizations for more than 20 years. And we want to start off our “best of” discussion with a Christian nonprofit that has the longest track record of surveying with BCW and implementing positive changes as they continue to focus on a great workplace culture.

Cary Humphries, tell us about Apartment Life and what our listeners can learn from their commitment to investing in people over the long term.

Cary Humphries: Al, there are so many things to admire about Apartment Life's commitment to culture and staff engagement. They are a ministry-placing community, inspiring teams into apartment complexes, as both a business optimizer for the owner and a way to walk with residents into their faith journey with Christ.

First, they've surveyed their staff's engagement every year for 21 years, amazing commitment to make culture a vital, measurable organizational priority. They have an average result, over those 21 years, at the top of our database, an exceptionally flourishing culture.

Then, five years ago, they began surveying deeper into their coordinator teams—all these staff, hundreds of staff, out in these apartment complexes using our volunteer survey. That team is also extremely healthy.

Now they've grown dramatically during these years in size, going through a transition from a founder to a new CEO. They've been through restructuring multiple times to handle that growth. Their commitment to staff engagement and culture intentionality has made them resilient and durable.

Finally, they've always had an attitude that better was possible. It's in their DNA to want to get better. And they have fun, too. One of their values is to be intentionally playful. And you can see it. They enjoy their journey and have a life-changing commitment to culture.

Al: Yeah, it’s amazing to think about Apartment Life and the 21 years. Thanks for sharing. They are now the longest-surveying organization working with Best Christian Workplace on a consecutive basis. And congratulations to Apartment Life. And again, just thinking about over 21 years, as I've started working with them, how they've grown and how they've changed to meet the needs of those they serve.

Well, when we’re looking at the list of flourishing Christian nonprofits, it's hard to decide who to feature. You know, we have such great ministry partners, and we've really enjoyed working with them over the years. You know, we could have mentioned Joni and Friends, and they're off and on our podcast and have been recently. Or Hope International with Peter Greer. Or Christ’s Church of the Valley, one of the largest churches in the country. And we've worked with so many of the largest churches. Bible League International, Giselle, one of yours. And just amongst so many that we could talk about.

But let’s talk about a couple of the Christian-led businesses, next. You know, that's a growing segment that we've worked with now over the last, probably, ten years. And this is a growing part of our impact as we provide tools for Christian business leaders to grow in employee engagement and in their sphere of influence.

And Giselle, you consult with an engineering company that has leadership focused on caring for their employees. Share about Spiars Engineering and what we can learn from them.

Giselle Jenkins: Absolutely, Al. I’ve had the pleasure of working with Spiars for a couple of years now, for the last two years they've taken the Survey. And when you think about an engineering firm, you probably think about focus and details, excellence. And absolutely, they will fall in that category.

They were founded my Tim Spiars, who is still the owner and the CEO. And we also work with several of the other leaders.

And what's particularly impressed me about Spiars is that they not only have a dedication to excellence, but they have just a passion for being strong, relational, winsome leaders, and they have been actually quite successful in that way and have very strong scores around inspirational leadership. And if you're some of our listeners, they might think, “Well, yeah, in my experience with engineers, they haven't actually been the best relational or inspiring leaders,” but certainly Spiars is an exception to that.

And they started surveying because they were part of a C12 group, and the C12 organization, which we also survey, encouraged their members to survey, and very fortunately, they chose us as their survey provider. And I think that there really is a connection there with wanting to be a great CEO and leader and participating in C12 and then deciding, “I need to hear from my employees and make sure that the efforts that we're taking are actually producing that.” They have a strong focus on talent and some amazing scores in our FLOURISH driver called outstanding talent. And in this time of turnover and short tenure, they've been able to retain employees under that pressure. And, you know, Texas is a growing state, and there's lots of opportunities for people to leave and not stay with their organization. But Spiars is able to be on the 78th percentile for retaining highly capable employees. So that's very impressive. And I think it's really driven by what the employees see as care and very strong leadership.

Al: Yeah. When you have a flourishing culture, Giselle, you're able to retain your employees. I mean, that's the anecdote, in a lot of ways, to the great resignation, which we don't hear about quite so much anymore post COVID, but still a key factor.

Well, that’s just fantastic. Thanks for that background.

You know, we serve the marketplace in many different industry sectors, and Cary, you have a financial company that you work with that has great leadership. Tell us about Davidson Wealth Management and how they created a workplace that reflects their values.

Cary: Yeah. Thanks, Al. Davidson Wealth Management in Davidson, North Carolina, came to us through their C12 connection. They're a team of committed professionals, helping families manage the complexities of their financial life through informed decisions, freeing them to spend their time on what matters most. You know, they arrived on our scene, committed to do the hard work, to move their culture to the healthiest possible level. They involved every member of their management team in thinking about a better way forward, look at their results intently. Following their initial debrief in 2020, their leadership team engaged us to walk with them through the process of understanding each other better. We helped them have some important conversations about style and approach that opened the door to improvement. And they continue to refine their approach, surveying and having candid conversations each year. It's been a real inspiration.

And, Al, they're a relatively smaller organization than many that we survey, under 20 staff, and yet they have a big impact in the place that they serve, and we're honored to work with them.

Al: Yeah. And Cary, you mentioned they've done the hard work to move their culture forward. You know, having a flourishing culture just doesn't happen by accident, does it?

Cary: It doesn't, yeah. And they recognize that they come at things differently just as individuals. And they wanted to get to know each other better, understand each other better. They invested some time to do that, and it was helpful.

Al: Yeah.

Well, before I move to the next category, Cary and Giselle, do you have any additional thoughts on what we can learn from outstanding leaders and Christian-led businesses or even the Christian nonprofit sector?

Giselle: I would say that we kind of know people are people, don't we? And we will often be asked when people are thinking of taking an Engagement Survey, you know, “Well, I don't know if our group, you know, these are the right questions for our group. I don't know if our group will respond to it.” And I think Cary and I have done this more than seven years now, and we’ve actually surveyed an amazing variety of organizations, everywhere from egg farms to missions and e-groups. And we find people are people. And the drivers that we use and the questions that we ask really do show whether or not people are supported in their organization or are there barriers. And I would say that, Al, you're the one that has taught us, certainly, to say it all starts with leadership. And so there is a strong commonality across nonprofits or for-profits or anything in between, that the leaders, they care and they're listening and they're humble and they're transparent. They allow themselves to be vulnerable through the Survey. So there's lots of commonalities, even in the uniqueness of these different industries.

Cary: Giselle points out something that I think is super helpful, which is the questions in our Survey address a basic human need. I mean, they work in Rwanda, they work in the Philippines, you know, in Malaysia and in Mississippi and Colorado and New York.

An observation I would have, though, is that outstanding leaders and organizations that come to my mind have one thing in common: they aren't afraid of the staff's feedback, and they're not afraid of benchmark data. They crave it. They measure everything of importance in their work. Why not culture and engagement? You know, these organizations are committed.

And I think of, you know, WinShape Foundation, ACR Supply, the Chapel, LSU, the Village Church, Alpha, Cho-Yeh Camp, Samaritan Ministries, Student Mobilization, RightNow Media, and Wilson Lumber, to name just a few. Many more. It’s hard to name organizations without forgetting some. But they ask hard questions. They desire every member on every team in their organization have fantastic work experiences. And this builds resilience and durability that can stand the test of changes in leadership or changes in circumstance.

Al: Yeah. That's really helpful, both Cary and Giselle. You know, as our leaders, you know, those that are listening, those are a couple of key things to consider.

So let's continue to move and focus on the area of Christian education. BCW works for Christian schools and Christian colleges and universities, and this sector is important for Kingdom impact as we invest in the next generation of Christian leaders.

Giselle, you work with Colorado Christian University and have seen a strong emphasis there on the employee experience and on a great educational environment. So share about what we can learn from this university and their experience.

Giselle: Well, if you haven't heard of Colorado Christian University, their main campus is in Denver, and they not only serve the greater Denver area, but they have extension campuses down here where I live, in Colorado Springs, and they also do online learning. And they're a very large Christian university. And if you can believe it, they have nearly 600 regular staff. So this is a large college.

And Colorado Christian University started surveying with us in 2021. And I noticed from that very first Survey that they were very interested in their employees’ experience. They had been doing all kinds of work already to make sure that their employees were having a good experience. And they had heard about us, and they gave us a try to see if they could get data from us that would help them improve even more.

And they came out of the block with an amazing level of employee engagement. Nearly 70% of their employees engaged, which if our listeners do research, you can go out there and find out that average American organization has about 30% employee engagement. So this is pretty amazing. And they sort of blew the university sector out of the water and, you know, well into the high eighties compared to other universities.

And so what do we find they do? Well, they keep in touch, very much in touch, with their employees. They want to hear from them. They keep channels open to hear from them. They're not afraid, as Cary mentioned earlier, to make sure that they get feedback from employees. And, you know, that's hard sometimes because when you think of employees giving feedback, it's probably not going to be, “Hey, here's an email. Thanks for my paycheck. It's just been a great week.” It's more like some kind of request and an ask. And a university that size, you can imagine how challenging that is. But they have a whole team there that is dedicated to the employee experience, and we really enjoy working with them because we're very much aligned with them in believing that your employees’ experience is going to translate into your customers’ experience and, obviously, of your overall impact.

Al: Yeah. Colorado Christian University, that's been a really great organization to see how they've been able to build a really healthy organizational culture, considering the difficulty that we oftentimes see in Christian higher ed.

I trust you’re enjoying our podcast today. We’ll be right back after an important word for leaders.

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Al: And now back to my conversation with Giselle Jenkins and Cary Humphries.

But Cary, you were talking earlier about how the, you know, employee engagement is important, not only in the U.S. but around the world and how even the questions that we ask apply. And, you know, we've got now our Employee Engagement Survey in nearly 25 different languages. But you're working with an organization called Kigali International Community School in Rwanda. So give us a little insight into what makes this school such an outstanding place to work, and some of our experience there.

Cary: Yeah. Thanks, Al. And we do, you know, we Survey organizations, I think, probably, in 10 African countries, and it's been an honor to work on that continent. But imagine running an international school in Kigali, Rwanda, you know, with all they've been through, focusing on partnering with families from 27 countries, bringing a biblical worldview integration into every scholastic subject, with excellence.

You know, they fulfill four accreditations as a school, including ACSI and CESA, who we enjoy collaborating with. And so encouraging them to measure what matters most—the health of their culture and their staff's engagement—is just right up their alley. And in partnership with BCW, they've moved solidly into the healthy zone, over five Survey cycles. Our tools have helped them hire, evaluate leadership, encourage communication, celebrate progress, and grow their influence. And it hasn't been easy, but I know they'd say it's worth it. They've asked for extra help and have been willing to have hard conversations. And they're better for it and getting even better. And they've been delightful to work with.

Al: That's fascinating that it works so well in Kigali in Rwanda.

But I'd also like to add another Christian school to the conversation, Calvary Christian Academy in the Fort Lauderdale area, which is now the largest Christian school in the United States. And they invest in their teachers so they can have a positive impact on their students. For example, they've been working with the Colson Center, who Giselle works with, to disciple their teachers and staff in a greater understanding of Christian worldview. And this is going to be a growing issue, I believe, in the importance in the Christian workplace, actually, now discipling our employees in Christian workplaces into a deeper perspective of Christian worldview.

In fact, in the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast episode 332, which was just recently, I talked with their president, Dr. Jason Rachels, about how they can grow their impact because of their flourishing workplace culture. And now Calvary Christian Academy has grown their impact because of their culture, and they've grown to acquire and start additional campuses because they have the ability to develop the next generation of Christian leaders, and they're able to pass on the DNA of their really flourishing culture to grow and expand their organization. So the chance of their success as they take on that additional responsibility is a lot higher because the DNA of their workplace is so much in place.

Well, all of these “best” stories are inspiring, but I certainly appreciate how our listeners can get practical leadership ideas from different types of organizations and how they create a healthy workplace culture. So now let's talk about a couple of churches.

We've really enjoyed working with churches for such a long time and how they create space for a thriving staff experience. I oftentimes say the health of the staff in the church today is the health of the congregation tomorrow. And we hear a lot about staff burnout and the difficulties of ministry in our post-pandemic world. And we also know that God will continue to use the local church to build His kingdom. So BCW comes along churches to equip them to have a healthy workplace because we know that if it’s a toxic workplace, people will not be attracted to the church or to Christ.

Again, there are many churches that we could share about our BCW partners. But Giselle, you consult with Bayside Church in Florida. And tell us about what we can learn from this church leadership team.

Giselle: Well, yes, I've worked with Bayside since they first started surveying with us. And as you can imagine, it's not easy to pastor a church, and it's certainly not easy to grow a church. And when I met them for the very first time, I was, frankly, very impressed with their original Survey results that came out much higher than an average church would the very first time that they Survey. We find ourselves, the first time an organization surveys, really becoming their cheerleaders and their champions; you know, noticing what they're doing well; you know, helping them see and understand what they need to improve in, and giving them ideas, suggestions, consultative advice for improvement.

And when I met Randy Bezet and his team the first time, I was actually very impressed with their first-year results. They just came in so much higher than we would normally see. And so I just posed a question. I said, “I don't know if you guys have thought about this, but what do you think you've been doing right?” And Randy just was really open and transparent. And he said, you know, “I'm extremely pleased these results came out high.” He said, “But, frankly, my wife, Amy, and I, we just said, ‘If we ever start a church, then people are going to want to work at this church. We're going to create a church where people want to work at the church. We will have failed if we create a church that's successful but do not create an employee experience that's awesome.” And he said, “So I don't know exactly what we've been doing right. But I do know that's where we're coming from.” And I am definitely seeing that persist since we started surveying them in 2018.

As you know, through the pandemic, it was actually very challenging for churches to continue to Survey. They had all kinds of things going on, every different way, that they could have taken their attention away from getting feedback from employees and acting on in. Bezet never stopped surveying. They Surveyed every year through the pandemic, and they just improved and improved, and now they are at the very top of our church sector. And I think they have created an actual culture team. So they have leaders who are specializing in their culture. They take the feedback, which is now high-flourishing range, and they focus on it. They have action plans for each and every area. They really drill in to anything that is not working well and said, you know, “We are going to make this experience better for people. We’re going to have not just a good culture for some people, but a good culture for everyone that works at our church.”

So I think I would just summarize by saying, you know, starting with this premise of “We won't have succeeded unless we create a church where people really want to work here and having a good experience,” and then going from there and bringing in other leaders that believe the same thing, and then bringing in the culture committee, and then staying steadfast—steadfast—because that temptation post pandemic or during the pandemic not to Survey because things were too up in the air, that wasn't their heart. Their heart was, “Let's Survey because things are up in the air.”

So I’d encourage people that are listening to this who say, “Oh, I don't know if this is a good time to Survey, because things might be up in the air there,” it's the perfect time because what it's telling you, just by the way that you're communicating, is you don't know what's going on, right? So when you don't know what is going on, you can find out by Surveying.

Al: That’s exactly right. In fact, that reminds me of a situation with one of our Canadian ministry partners, another church, Beulah Alliance Church in Edmonton, Alberta. They're one of the largest Christian churches in Canada. And yeah, let's find out what's going on. Well, when they initially started working with us, they weren't sure what the health of their culture was. In fact, after they found out, they realized that a couple of their ministry teams were about ready to leave the church because they were so unhappy. And so that allowed them to focus on, “What kind of outstanding talent do we need? How do we build a culture here?” And they built a flourishing workplace culture over the years with Keith Taylor. And he kept listening and the executive pastors kept listening to staff feedback, and that helped them really grow over time.

Just recently, I did a podcast, podcast number 333, with Daniel Im, and they've had a very successful leadership transition because they had a foundation of a flourishing workplace culture, and that was able to help them successfully transition from their long-time leader, Keith Taylor, to their new leader, senior pastor Daniel Im. And this really a great success story of how they have transformed their culture from a very difficult culture to now a very healthy culture, and used that as the platform to actually succeed the original pastor.

So I love to see the stories of healthy successions, particularly in large churches, because we’ve seen that, though, it doesn't always happen, does it? So…

Well, you know, Cary and Giselle, we've learned so much from each of you in this conversation. You know, I like to, let's just look back. Cary, you talked about Apartment Life, 21 years where they have Surveyed and listened to their staff year after year. And Spiars Engineering and how they really focus on retaining and have retained their outstanding talent. And Davidson Wealth Management. And in our discussion, just brief discussion, on leadership and how leaders crave feedback and act on it. Colorado Christian University, Calvary Christian Academy, Bayside Church, just to name a few.

Is there anything you'd like to add, Cary? Why don't you give us a summary?

Cary: Well, Al, as you mentioned those names, I was just thinking of leaders. And I'd say that a leader’s humility and courage are the keys to going on a journey to constantly growing a durable, healthy culture. You know, it seems natural to trust intuition. Many leaders are intuitive. But the larger an organization is, or even more remote and independent staff in smaller organizations, the less likely you are to get an accurate picture of their engagement without help. You know, stepping up to measure is a tremendously helpful first step.

Al: Yeah. Amen. Yeah.

Giselle, your thoughts?

Giselle: Well, I’ve had a couple of interesting conversations recently around the roles and responsibilities of leaders and what they need to own alone and what they might need to own collectively in their organization. And I'd say a key to a fantastic flourishing organization would be that balance of, as a leader, I need to take certain responsibilities personally. I need to, the bottom line, say that I'm accountable for results and accountable for the health of this organization. But sometimes leaders don't understand yet that they need to be more participative in the way that they lead their organizations. In other words, they need input. They need to hear from their employees. And sometimes this is a revelation in a discussion. They'll say, “Well, I'm responsible for the vision. I'm responsible for the strategic plan.” And so as we help them understand that, especially through examples like, “Well, how would you feel if you just were hired in an organization but no one asked you what you thought about something,” how would that resonate with you? As they start to, like, feel that from employees, and then they see the value of employees participating through their feedback through being involved in decisions that affect them, they find that they actually are becoming more effective leaders. And so this is the shift in mindset from, “I’ll be a more effective leader if I stand alone and I cast the vision and I do things myself,” to this opening up.

And one of our organizations, who probably everyone has heard of, Bible League International, they made that mindset shift about 10 years ago, and they've had amazing results of understanding that not just their top leaders or the very top leader has insight and vision to give, but their whole group does. And that has produced an amazingly consistent flourishing environment.

So I'd say that our form of work that we do with employee engagement, we see amazing results when leaders can see themselves positionally as leaders, but in the way that they lead and manage, they're very inclusive and they bring people in. And obviously, Engagement Surveys do that, right? It brings in this insight from others.

Al: Well, thanks, Giselle, and thanks, Cary. Thanks so much for your insights today. You’ve taken us on a quick tour of great ministries and really given us some practical takeaways for our listeners as they focus on employee engagement and flourishing workplaces. And most of all, I appreciate your commitment, your strong commitment, to coming alongside our ministry partners so that they can continue to effectively impact people around the world for God's Kingdom. So thanks for taking your time out today and speaking into the lives of so many listeners.

Outro: The Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast is sponsored by Best Christian Workplaces. If you need support building a flourishing workplace culture, please visit workplaces.org for more information.

We'll see you again next week for more valuable content to help you develop strong leaders and build a flourishing workplace culture.

Al: Next week we begin our summer series highlighting some of the most-popular podcasts over the past several years. You'll love listening to WinShape team speaker and author Rusty Chadwick as he talks about how to build a community and flourishing teams in your workplace.